Injector fun

[synaesthesia]

Having a right 'mare with my 1.6 TDCi injectors. Went to do my annual oil change this morning, ran the engine for a while to heat things up and noticed the all too familiar puffing sound from one of the injectors. Joy, seal gone. A good spray around each one and identified number 4. ***** thing wouldn't shift! Got a tiny bit of movement in it but can't get it to lift out whatsoever :(

Whilst at it, #2 seemed quite coked up so took that out - came out easily.Cleaned up, put it back and that seems a lot better. Just ***** annoyed about #4!

Still, all back together again to find oil spurting out from the rocker cover. Great, gasket to boot. So, popped that back up, plenty of RTV (eww) and that's back on. And once again my turbo oil feed pipe leaking, I must have knocked it and my repair from last year (more RTV around the joint). Surprised it lasted a year leak-free but still!

Set of injector seals, new gasket and new oil feed pipe ordered. Hope the thing lasts long enough (5 short journeys to work and back) until next weekend to fix! :(

 

I'm hearing a lot of people going on about having to clean the injector seats at the bottom, once the copper seal/washer is out. I'm suspecting that may be necessary, are the cheap kits for doing that worth it?

[Ticktock]

You can get some with plugs that seal the injector hole. TBH all I did was stuff a bit of kitchen roll down there to stop any crap getting in and cleaned them out with a pick, took the kitchen roll out and hey presto 4 clean injector seats.

Watch the clips off the fuel pressure hose, 1 of mine pinged off and cost me nearly £5 to replace.

[synaesthesia]

Cheers - I did nearly lose one, thankfully found it - put blueroll in the top of the rockers to catch debris and thankfully it was in there! :) 

oil feed pipe again temporarily repaired and no longer leaking :)
Temporary RTV gasket on the rocker cover appears to be doing it's job too. They should keep me running until the weekend hopefully.

Still chuffing  this morning with visible smoke around the injector area; I believe that was there beforehand which would explain the BBQ smell in the cabin but now i've got the engine cover off it's very visible. Also wondered if that might be some of the oil that spurted around the engine. Won't be revving the hell out of it in the meantime. It would certainly explain a harsh drop in MPG recently. Also put a fire extinguisher in the boot this morning just in case! :(

[synaesthesia]

A little worried now. Thought the smoke was coming from the injectors, it's not. It's coming from the rear. Can't see any oil deposited anywhere, can't see any leaks of diesel.

Any thoughts before I succumb to taking it to a garage? :(

 

[Ryan_Tango]

Have you checked the exhaust pipes are seated properly on the exhaust manifold, might just be wear and tear and needs a new bolt because one has come loose or broke. 

[synaesthesia]

Possible, need to look at how to get to that. Haven't changed anything near the exhaust so could be wear & tear. Just hope it's not DPF related.

[Focusoap]

Hello I've had problems too removing injectors on the mk2 1.6 Tdci! In the end I removed the inlet manifold to get a better grip on the injector body and just kept carefully wiggling until a bit of movement started then kept plying it with EGR cleaner until I eventually removed it. Getting the engine really hot before you start help loosen up the combustion gunge that sticks the injector in the tube but it's like Araldite! If the injector copper washer is not sealing you will need to resurface the injector well with a 17x17mm injector seat cutter. I bought a set off eBay for less than 20 squid and did the job fine. Just make sure the seat looks like new before you replace the copper washer and injector. Clean all the gunge off the injector body before replacing but keep clear of the tip where the minute holes are. Don't over tighten the injector retaining "nuts" because they snap like carrots if you're over enthusiastic!

They say you should replace the injector hp pipes if removed but I've never had the need to. Just be careful to get the flared end back on square before tightening up and keep everything scrupulously clean or you'll end up with a big bill! Good luck and reward yourself in the pub when it's all back together!

[synaesthesia]

Hah - funnily enough I bought a pair of beer pumps a couple of days ago for my back garden bar. Maybe I'll buy a keg or two and celebrate out there ;) - Not so far to stagger home! :D

[synaesthesia]

Well, interesting times! Parts are coming tomorrow so have been driving a Hyundai i20 for the last few days on hire (cheaper than a taxi). Quite surprised as I was the first person to drive it, had 14 miles on the clock when I got it! :D Shame it's absolutely gutless :(

Anyway,still struggling to get one injector out so today decided to pop off the manifold to gain more room for leverage. Glad I did, because what I uncovered was just diabolical.

So, put in another order for new seals for the manifold as they were way past salvageable. Took a hoover to the engine to get the worst of the carbon up. Took a couple of files to the manifold - the damn thing wasn't far off entirely blocked. Surprised the ***** thing ran! Manually scraped a load out then filled it with degreaser cleaner, where it's still soaking now. Did the same for the top of the engine whilst there, again very carefully scraping away the carbon from the holes whilst sucking with the hoover.

God I hope this all works when I put it back together!

[biff55]

ooh thats bad ^^^

i've never seen a better reason for buying a petrol engined car 

[iantt]

56 minutes ago, biff55 said:

ooh thats bad ^^^

i've never seen a better reason for buying a petrol engined car 

i cant agree more! the joys of a diesel. 

[synaesthesia]

Indeed, certainly starting to regret it. If only the morons in government actually had a clue what they were talking about and taxed vehicles properly and fairly in the first place instead of making everyone buy a diesel for cheap running :(

[synaesthesia]

Well, all the horror stories of getting out the injector washers seem unfounded. Finally got #4 out and both 2 and 4 seals came out really easily - used a large coach bolt to screw into it. Amusingly one was either so worn or so badly made, the hole wasn't anywhere near center!

[biff55]

sods law dictates that for every piece of good luck you boast about , 3 bits of bad luck will shortly follow   lol

 

hope you get it sorted though  :-)

[Focusoap]

Did you take a look at the injector washer seats whilst it's in bits? Maybe worthwhile since you've come this far? Mine were badly marked with compression gases leakage contributing to the combustion cr*p on the top of the cam cover. There are some seals that fit in the top of the injector tubes to stop engine oil leaking out onto the cam cover and mine were past it and for the sake of another £13 changed them for peace of mind and the satisfaction of getting them done.

All this combustion cr*p comes via the EGR valve. Another bright invention to make the CI engine more enviromentally friendly with the dreaded DPF. Rumour has it that Don Trump is going to ban them!!

[synaesthesia]

And yeah, I'll be changing the top seals today too. As for the seats, found plenty of specialist tools for that however all seemed fairly pointless when I can use a dremel for the same effect; if the extension bar fits down there. If not, a dowl with some sandpaper glued on the bottom will do the same job. I'll also drop a stupidly high powered magnet down to pick up as much of the magnetic swarf as possible. Funnily enough, there's so much crud & carbon caked on one of the old injector seals that it was magnetic itself! :)

 

11 hours ago, Focusoap said:

Did you take a look at the injector washer seats whilst it's in bits? Maybe worthwhile since you've come this far? Mine were badly marked with compression gases leakage contributing to the combustion cr*p on the top of the cam cover. There are some seals that fit in the top of the injector tubes to stop engine oil leaking out onto the cam cover and mine were past it and for the sake of another £13 changed them for peace of mind and the satisfaction of getting them done.

All this combustion cr*p comes via the EGR valve. Another bright invention to make the CI engine more enviromentally friendly with the dreaded DPF. Rumour has it that Don Trump is going to ban them!!

 

[synaesthesia]

As far as bad luck goes, this pretty much takes the biscuit :(

Everything changed & back in. Refuses to start. Kept priming with no joy. Loud buzzing coming from fuel pump area. Could well be the battery is too flat as it's been weak for a while. Will try and charge the battery overnight but likely I'll have to give up and send it to a garage :(

[Focusoap]

Pretty sure there's no fuel pump. The fuel system relies on the " suction" created by the HP pump to maintain a constant fuel feed at its inlet. Once the filter/ pump/fuel line pipes etc are full without any entrapped air the system is self priming and pumping. The problem is getting the circuit air free especially if you have removed the high pressure feed unions at the injectors or changed the fuel filter (good idea to replace now it's in bits). They are notoriously difficult to get going. There are lots of valuable tips on this forum forum how to resolve. I've used a small hypodermic syringe with great success to refill the system in conjunction with a suction fuel bulb to fill the filter. The starter motor isn't designed for long term cranking and can soon overheat! God knows why Ford didn't spend another fiver installing an insitu primer and make everybody's life easier. After you've got it going once after a strip down you'll get it going no problems if you do it again. Swearing/kicking inanimate objects etc can help. Goodluck.

[synaesthesia]

Well, it's in the garage. Just gotta wait now. Told them they can do the oil change, fuel filter & turbo feed pipe whilst at it. Thankfully they're understanding of idiots like me, dangerous with a haynes manual!

Picked up my hire car for the week. Brand new Focus ecoboost. 70 miles on the clock :D Handles and drives like a dream but again, feels gutless. Think the pull of a diesel has spoiled me.

[Focusoap]

At least you had a go and got the major stuff done. Your garage will have seen the fuel priming problem before and have a resident witch doctor who will cast a spell, have a dance and get it going! You are not alone!

[synaesthesia]

Starting to sound expensive, they're doing leakdown & compression tests today :(

On another note. Are all Ecoboosts utterly rubbish and uneconomical? I know this one won't have bedded in yet at 150 miles on the clock but christ on a bike - no car should only be pulling an average of 38-39mpg sitting at 65 on a flat dual cabbageway!

[FatHead1979]

5 hours ago, synaesthesia said:

Starting to sound expensive, they're doing leakdown & compression tests today :(

On another note. Are all Ecoboosts utterly rubbish and uneconomical? I know this one won't have bedded in yet at 150 miles on the clock but christ on a bike - no car should only be pulling an average of 38-39mpg sitting at 65 on a flat dual cabbageway!

I use a hire car twice a week to make a 120 miles commute (105 of the miles are on the M1), I often end up with all sorts of cars but have driven a few 16/66 plate Focus.

1.5 TDCI, average 55 MPG and good pull, most of the journey spent doing a 'good' 70

1.6 TDCI, average 51 MPG, decent pull, most of the journey spent doing a 'good' 70

1.0 Ecoboost 125 BHP, average 45 MPG, most of the journey spent doing a 'good' 70

IMO in terms of performance and economy it's no match for the new 1.5 TDCI, however the diesels (like all diesels) chuck out far more toxic stuff into the environment than a petrol and many of the parts of a diesel cost significantly more than on the equivalent petrol so if you're going to own 1 of the above, the 1.0 Ecoboost maybe makes more sense IMHO.

[synaesthesia]

Absolutely, whatever happens I won't be going diesel again. I need to keep my TDCi burning for another couple of years before I can realistically look at ditching it though :(

[Tdci-Peter]

On 26/01/2017 at 9:54 PM, 1979Damian said:

however the diesels (like all diesels) chuck out far more toxic stuff into the environment than a petrol

That is one way of looking at it, but as I see it, particulates & NOx are soon washed out of the atmosphere, and are only a problem in crowded cities, where they build up a bit. Of course, that is where most of the regulators and politicians live.

The big potential planet killer is CO2. Warming the Arctic, raising sea levels and in danger of flooding low lying cities. Diesels, on a like for like basis of power, put out less CO2 than petrol simply because it is a more efficient cycle.

So for cars used mainly in a non-urban location, Diesel is still the most environmentally friendly. Electric cars that use electricity from coal, gas and oil, and have huge, inefficient, short lived batteries, are probably the worst of all.

As for the Ecoboost type of engine being a full answer, have a look at: http://articles.sae.org/13624/

But from an owner's point of view, I do agree that the current way that DPFs are used on diesels, plus the rising repair costs, are making them increasingly expensive and unpopular. Ah well, Polar bears are jolly dangerous, perhaps they won't be missed!

But there is no easy solution, at least not yet. Maybe somewhen ??? The perfect battery, Nuclear Fusion, or just some good politicians and regulators. Hmm, I think I put my money on Nuclear Fusion first. We have only been waiting about 60 years for that, compared to well over 120 years for a decent battery, and since the dawn of time for decent politicians & bureaucrats!

Nick (synaesthesia), I hope your car gets sorted for an reasonable cost. It all seemed to be going so well.

[synaesthesia]

Had some good news yesterday from the garage. Leakback & compression tests come back fine. It appears that when I was fiddling with things, I knocked the camshaft sensor and damaged it. That didn't show up on their diagnostics (or on Forscan for me) so it came as a surprise to me and them, but replacing it got it started right up. However when it was running they noticed a significant diesel leak from injector 4; seems I had also managed to thread and damage the HP pipe and the injector.

So, certainly better news than I expected, and certainly gives me confidence in the garage that they're not fleecing me :)