Jump to content
Do Not Sell My Personal Information


MK7 1.6 TDCI - Still getting limp mode after EGR blank (P042E)


STEC93
 Share

Recommended Posts

First post!

I got a 2009 Zetec S 1.6 TDCI just after Christmas to ease the cost of commuting and it's been brilliant apart from an intermittent fault that seems to be becoming all the more persistent.

The car goes into limp mode, doesn't throw a warning light but struggles to rev as though the boost is being electronically limited (limp mode).

Assumed it was the EGR after some research so blanked it off and replaced the fuel filter while I was, but I've had limp mode thrown three times now since I blanked it off yesterday. Had it plugged into Torque and get the code P042E (Exhaust Gas Recirculation "A" Control Stuck Open).

Assumed now it was blocked off I wouldn't get any trouble, does the EGR now need replacing - just for the sake of blanking it off again? or can you unplug these without any issues?

Or could it be something else entirely?

Cheers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Hi

Very interested in this post of yours. My 2009 Fiesta 1.6 TDCI recently had the same issue. Mine threw the  P042E code (Exhaust Gas Recirculation "A" Control Stuck Open) as well, but I did get a MIL warning light on the dash as well. I could clear the fault and code, but then on a run, it still felt as if was dragging its heels. This week, I bit the bullet and took off the EGR and pipe. It was definitely carboned up, but not bad. I have seen some EGR pipes almost blocked. Anyway, I gave the valve chamber a clean out with Petrol, but I could not get the valve to open, as I wasn't able to put the electrics on the solenoid. So, when I put it back on, I put a blank in as well, but opted for the one with the 5-6mmm hole in it. I also changed the fuel filter while I was there. 

Once I put it back together, the car went like a rocket again. No alarms & no going into limp mode. So why are we different?  Not sure if EGR valve being able to operate (even if the pipe is blanked), is a requirement of the system. If this is the case, it may be that my cleaning of the valve internals may have freed it off enough for it to operate, even though its blanked.  Also not sure if the small hole in the blank has any effect at all. 

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has a bit more knowledge on this issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your reply and funny you should mention the engine management light, mine has just started to throw the yellow check engine and yellow cog.


First think I'll try is unplugging the egr completely, if it throws a light but no limp mode then no biggie, nothings worse than constant BMW iDrive bongs!

Failing that, I'll take the EGR off this weekend and see what's going on. An OE valeo one is only 80 on eBay, just begrudged paying for something for the car to uselessly play about with for it's own sanity.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another point, I see your cars are all of a pretty similar age, what mileage are you all on? And what sort of oil change service history has been done?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mines currently at 72k, full service history. I'm assuming up to this point the oil has been by the book.

Got PSA parts to do the injector seals, oil feed and pickup, just not got around to fitting yet. Will do 5-6k oil changes thereafter.

I'm pretty sure mines pre-DPF too as it's the 90 model

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites


10 minutes ago, STEC93 said:

Mines currently at 72k, full service history. I'm assuming up to this point the oil has been by the book.

Got PSA parts to do the injector seals, oil feed and pickup, just not got around to fitting yet. Will do 5-6k oil changes thereafter.

I'm pretty sure mines pre-DPF too as it's the 90 model

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

The problem is the ford recommended service intervals are too long, its crucial to keep on top of your oil changes with this engine from the very beginning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 31/01/2017 at 10:50 PM, STEC93 said:

Assumed now it was blocked off I wouldn't get any trouble, does the EGR now need replacing

On my 1.8, blanking the EGR definitely does not stop it from putting the EML on and raising EGR DTCs. When blanked, it is still physically operating, and if there is a problem in the valve, it will still be detected by the ECU. On mine the problems have all been bad electrical connections in the EGR actuator section, which I have been able to fix.

Blanking the valve stops the poor driveability that I get with a bad EGR, but the EML would still come on.

The 1.6 uses a similar electrically driven servo type actuator, with a simple electric motor and a valve position feedback pot, so the same problem is likely to arise.

Also, the EGR system on the 1.6 is more complex than on the 1.8, the throttle valve (aka anti-shudder valve) is also involved. On some of these engines the EGR can not be blanked without raising a code.

The trouble with having the EML on all the time, is that you can not see if any more urgent problem crops up. You would have to frequently check for new codes. Ok for a while, but could get annoying.

The EGR on the 1.6 is relatively easy to remove, and not horrifically expensive to replace if it can not be serviced.

The general view on blanking plates with holes is they do little good, they still let carbon into the inlet manifold. A re-map is usually the only way to eliminate the EGR on most modern engines. Fortunately for me, the 1.8 is not a "modern" engine".

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 1.6 TDCI had originally followed Fords service recommendations, but I am now changing the oil at 5000 - 6000 miles. Until this car, I had always been a petrol man, so it always frightens me to see the state of oil after such a small mileage. The car has 58,000 on it. However, as I said in my post the EGR and pipe didn't look that bad, but obviously it could have been enough cause the EGR to "stick". When I ordered the Blanks, I got sent two. One with a hole in and one without. I fitted the one with the hole in as I wasn't sure what faults might be thrown up by the engine management if it was totally blanked. Looks like I need not have worried. However, I fitted a holed version to my sons Astra Van a year or two ago. It need the holed version to stop the EML from coming up. His had been spot on since then. 

I did try to remove the solenoid from the EGR in the hope of being able to operate the valve and make sure it was fully clean - however, it didn't look like it would come off easily, so I left it. I'll see what happens to mine now, and if it starts throwing up faults again, and under performing, I'll put the full blank in and buy a another EGR to fit.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tried unplugging the EGR and driving to work and back. Much more responsive, no flat spots and no more limp mode!

Only issue is the lights being on, but I can live with that for now.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well after cleaning the EGR valve unit ( not very well as I couldn't get it to move electrically off the car), I ran fine for a while but now the EML light is coming back up and I get the P042E code  (Exhaust Gas Recirculation "A" Control Stuck Open). So.............. With the EGR blanked, the car performs well, but I am left with the EML light on, which is unacceptable. As other have said, if I pull the connector off the valve, the EML still comes up. I'm now wondering what the way forward is.

1. Remove the EGR again and try and get the valve open so I can clean it out properly. Has anyone managed to do this with the valve off the car? 

2. Buy a new valve and fit it  - This would be a few hundred pounds for a genuine Ford Unit and I can't afford that.

3. Find a way to "bypass" the electrics somehow and fool the system into thinking that everything is OK without it actually operating the EGR. Has anyone tried this?

If I had a wiring diagram for the EGR operation I guess that would help, but I only have a Haynes manual which is no good.

Sorry for the long post and questions. This issue obviously affects quite a few of us, and if we could come up with a straight forward solution it would help us all out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can get a valve for £80, Ford will only sell you a Valeo unit in a ford branded box.

These are Ford/PSA engines at the end of the day so searching for Peugeot parts usually gives cheaper results.

Getting the car remapped is your alternative option, which will write out the EGR completely.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, STEC93 said:

You can get a valve for £80, Ford will only sell you a Valeo unit in a ford branded box.

These are Ford/PSA engines at the end of the day so searching for Peugeot parts usually gives cheaper results.

Getting the car remapped is your alternative option, which will write out the EGR completely.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Thanks for this. I was concerned about non OE parts from EBAY but if Valeo or Peugeot parts will do, this may be the way forward. I don't know if I want to do a remap as yet, but that may also be an option for me down the road. I have sent for a cheapo 2nd hand working EGR from Ebay which I'm going to play about with to see if I can do something with the electrics. If this fails I'll go down the new replacement option.

Many thanks for the input

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, MWMan said:

Remove the EGR again and try and get the valve open so I can clean it out properly. Has anyone managed to do this with the valve off the car? 

I've done it a few times with the 1.8 EGR, and the 1.6 EGR is much the same design, just a simple electric motor and a position feedback pot. It does need some suitable clips or fittings to make contact with the pins in the valve, without getting short circuits all over the place, and a variable voltage power supply helps. A low powered battery charger or fixed 12v supply would probably do. Just do not use a car battery unless the test wiring is suitably fused or protected.

If you do not have much in the way of electrical test bits, or experience, it would be a bit harder.

I have thought about bypassing the valve, but it is not simple. The supply to the valve motor is 12v PWM (switched on/off quickly), and the feedback signal has to be steady DC, of the correct voltage in the 0-5v range. It may need a suitable load on the supply or it will see the motor as open circuit, and may complain. So I have not tried it. I would do that rather than replace the whole inlet manifold, which is needed on the 1.8 if the valve itself is completely jammed.

The pinout for the 1.6 EGR is below, though this is from a Focus wiring diagram. But I think the valve will be the same.

egr-cd.png

If I could not clean or repair it, I would buy the cheapest one I could get, off eBay. If it did'nt work, you should get a refund. No point in wasting cash on an annoying and not very essential bit of kit. It is not like timing belts, brakes or a clutch, where quality can really count.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I've done it a few times with the 1.8 EGR, and the 1.6 EGR is much the same design, just a simple electric motor and a position feedback pot. It does need some suitable clips or fittings to make contact with the pins in the valve, without getting short circuits all over the place, and a variable voltage power supply helps. A low powered battery charger or fixed 12v supply would probably do. Just do not use a car battery unless the test wiring is suitably fused or protected.

If you do not have much in the way of electrical test bits, or experience, it would be a bit harder.

I have thought about bypassing the valve, but it is not simple. The supply to the valve motor is 12v PWM (switched on/off quickly), and the feedback signal has to be steady DC, of the correct voltage in the 0-5v range. It may need a suitable load on the supply or it will see the motor as open circuit, and may complain. So I have not tried it. I would do that rather than replace the whole inlet manifold, which is needed on the 1.8 if the valve itself is completely jammed.

The pinout for the 1.6 EGR is below, though this is from a Focus wiring diagram. But I think the valve will be the same.

egr-cd.png

If I could not clean or repair it, I would buy the cheapest one I could get, off Ebay. If it did'nt work, you should get a refund. No point in wasting cash on an annoying and not very essential bit of kit. It is not like timing belts, brakes or a clutch, where quality can really count.

Awesome response!!!!  Many Thanks. I do have some experience with electrical / electronics systems and have a couple of good multi meters. Your diagram is exactly what I was looking for. As soon as my cheapo play about one arrives, I'll have a go. Did you ever try to remove the motor / solenoid from the valve itself? I removed the Torx screws holding it to the valve body, but it didn't want to separate too easily, so I put the screws back in.. 

Thanks again.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, MWMan said:

Did you ever try to remove the motor / solenoid from the valve itself? I removed the Torx screws holding it to the valve body, but it didn't want to separate too easily, so I put the screws back in.. 

Not on the 1.6 EGR. I have done it on the 1.8, that came apart quite easily. Best to leave pulling it apart until a replacement arrives. There is always a slight worry it is sealed, some delicate bit might break, or a spring pop out. Had that a few times on various bits of kit. I am a bit of a compulsive dismantler biggrin.png.

I am assuming the Fiesta & Focus 1.6s are virtually the same, though wiring colour codes etc may vary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I received my second hand EGR valve from eBay and set about disconnecting the motor unit from the valve body, so that I could clean it properly. I have attached a pdf file showing what I did. It turns out to be very easy to strip apart and clean, and if I had had the knowledge I have now, I would have just cleaned that valve and put it back on the car. Hopefully this will be of help to other who are having the same problems. My next step will be to take my own valve off the car, clean it to ensure there is free movement and refit it. However, I think I will still refit it with the blank. I can then forget about it for the life of the car - I hope!!

My thanks to TDCI Peter for the wiring diagram for the EGR motor unit, which in the end I didn't need as I was able to open the valve as shown in the pdf document. However, very useful to have.

 

EGR Valve Strip Down.pdf

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

Hi all, I’ve posted on a new thread but maybe you guys will recognise this topic. Where exactly is the EGR valve located and how do you disconnect it to ‘prove’ it’s the problem ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...

Forums


News


Membership