MOT woes and Persistant Clunking!

[Dee_82]

Hi guys, its been a while, been up to my eyes in work and my computer decided to melt in to a pool of goo.

anywho, new PC and all is well in the world, except a wee problem with the car :(

So car failed its MOT the other week, they said it was the OS ball joint, it had done 105k so I wasn't too supprised, I kinda knew something was amiss when driving to the garage (Halfords, my usual garage was getting their MOT bay replaced) on the way to the garage it developed a very loud clunking sound.

So it failed on the ball joint and they replaced the whole control arm.  The clunking sound didn't however go away, every bump and hump in the road it was clunk about, after 5 min look back at home it was the anti-roll bar link, it was almost completely off the bracket

Fixed that and clunking gone....almost, now it didn't clunk under any suspension travel rough roads, lumps and bumps, you name it, its perfect, but it would clunk if I slammed on the brake, but only once, I then need to do some serious acceleration and then I can make it clunk again and so on, it is defo OS front and I can feel it on my feet.

Yesterday I was doing an oil change and checked out the new control arm they installed wondering if that was not done up correctly, low and behold Halfords had only torqued the rear 2 bolts to about 110-120Nm, Spec says 175Nm.

But the clunk persists any suggestions?

Another wee question I had with the MOT which someone might be able to enlighten me on.  whilst in an MOT the car is not to be dismantled so they wouldn't normally see some work above the engine shield, the DPF for example, but if you fail an MOT then they do some work under the car and then notice that the DPF has perhaps been tampered with, can they then put the car back together, restart the MOT then bring up the issue with the DPF even if it wasn't and still isn't visible at the actual MOT?

 

 

 

 

 

[williamweb]

Hello,back along I brushed a kerb and snapped the near side front anti roll bar link,after which I experienced a loud knocking sound.Now you have a new front arm do you find the steering is more sharper?Only  asking because mine has done 99000 and I'm thinking of replacing this summer as a pre-emptive advisory strike.Yours also could be the dreaded cv joint.

[James West Mids]

Not sure if it's the same for you but when I had a 'clunking' sound on my mk2.5 ST about 2 years ago, the cause of the sound was the driveshaft had split. I think Ford replaced it for around £180.

 

 

[Dee_82]

the control arm made a world of difference to the ride quailty, I only had the OS done at the garage but ill be doing the NS arm shortly, the bush on the old arm was wrecked as well.  as to steering, hard to say, the NS control arm bushes are screwed so its hard to tell if its sharper due to the slight imbalance. but 100% it feels a lot smoother and even less road noise on bumpy roads.

I had checked the drive shaft yesterday as well, it looks fine and there isn't any clunking whilst turning which is why I ruled out the CV joint.

The best way I can describe it is like something heavy is pushed backwards eventually under hard acceleration, braking hard slides it forward and it clunks, but only once until it gets pulled bac again.

 

[isetta]

hopefully you have checked the brake caliper is secure and not loose (the caliper bolts and the big bolts on the caliper mount), and checked that the front wheel is done up tight so that the disc does not turn slightly on the wheel studs

[Devonboy]

Halfrauds caused £400 worth of damage to my car last year, stay well clear of these butchers..

[Dee_82]

7 hours ago, isetta said:

hopefully you have checked the brake caliper is secure and not loose (the caliper bolts and the big bolts on the caliper mount), and checked that the front wheel is done up tight so that the disc does not turn slightly on the wheel studs

the wheel is fine, the brake calliper was fine to touch but ill take a torque wrench to it to be sure.  thanks

 

5 hours ago, Devonboy said:

Halfrauds caused £400 worth of damage to my car last year, stay well clear of these butchers..

yeah, not impressed at all.

 

So does anyone have any thoughts on the MOT retest adding advisories that they couldn't see in an actual MOT test but was seen whilst doing work to the car after a fail?

 

[Dee_82]

Hi Guys, I'm still having troubles with this clunking. it doesn't feel as bad as it used to but then I might just be getting used to it.

I'm going to replace the NS control arm shortly although I don't expect that to fix the problem but I'm running out of ideas what it could be

Could the lower engine mount on the left make a clunk and be felt by my feet?

the OS control arm is tightened up, its the correct 21mm size, the drop link is fine, as is the wheel ARB bushs and brake carrier, the spring isn't damaged

to cut a long story short, if I accelerate hard a few times then brake hard I get a single clunk by my feet, it wont do it again unless I boot it a few more times.

 

any more ideas?

 

 

 

[F0CUE]

I was thinking more the engine mount as I was reading through the scenario I would check that but there is a couple of recalls in regards to clunking and one involved better bolts for the sway bar links and another was top strut needing tightened depending on year.

[F0CUE]

• 
  TSB
  10-8-5 CLICK/POP NOISE FROM FRONT END WHILE TURNING OR GOING OVER BUMPS
  
  Publication Date: April 27, 2010
  
  FORD: 2008-2010 Focus
  
  
  This article supersedes TSB 09-18-2 to update the service Procedure, service Labor Time Standards and Part List.
  
  ISSUE:
  Some 2008-2010 Focus vehicles may exhibit a click/pop type noise from the front end while turning and/or driving over bumps, or a creak/squeak noise from front when driving over bumps. The noise may be isolated to front stabilizer bar end links, front upper strut bearing area, and/or lower control arm.
  
  ACTION:
  Follow the service procedure to correct the condition.
  
  SERVICE PROCEDURE
  Install Chassis Ear JSP97202 in the Rotunda Technician Tool Program or equivalent to identify and isolate the source of the noise.
  Drive the vehicle over moderate bumps and perform left and right turns.
  If a click/pop noise is coming from front stabilizer bar end link(s), proceed to Step 3.
  If a click/pop noise is from upper strut bearing area, go to Step 4.
  If a creak/squeak type noise is coming from a lower control arm, go to Step 5.
  Front stabilizer bar end link click/pop noise.
  Is vehicle built on or before 1/11/2010?
  Yes - remove and install four (4) revised stabilizer bar end link nuts per Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 204-01; torque to 46 lb-ft (63 N-m).
  No - replace affected stabilizer bar end link(s) per WSM, Section 204-01; torque nuts to 46 lb-ft (63 N-m).
  Upper strut bearing click/pop noise.
  Is vehicle built on or between 10/01/2007 and 10/31/2007?
  Yes - replace upper strut bearing per WSM, Section 204-01; torque nuts to 30 lb-ft (40 N-m).
  No - proceed to Step 3b.
  Is vehicle built on or before 11/30/2008?
  Yes - inspect the three (3) upper strut mount nuts for signs of looseness. Torque nuts to 30 lb-ft (40 N-m).
  No - replace suspect strut per WSM, Section 204-01; torque upper nuts to 30 lb-ft (40 N-m).
  Lower control arm creak/squeak noise.
  Replace the affected lower control arm per WSM, Section 204-01.
  
  PART NUMBER PART NAME
  9S4Z-3078-A Lower Control Arm - Right Hand
  9S4Z-3079-A Lower Control Arm - Left Hand
  9S4Z-18124-C Front Strut - Right Hand, w/ Rear Stabilizer Bar
  9S4Z-18124-E Front Strut - Right Hand, w/o Rear Stabilizer Bar
  9S4Z-18124-D Front Strut - Left Hand, w/ Rear Stabilizer Bar
  9S4Z-18124-F Front Strut - Left Hand, w/o Rear Stabilizer Bar
  8S4Z-18198-A Strut Bearing
  AS4Z-5K484-AA Front Stabilizer Bar End Link
  W-713760-S440 Nut - Stabilizer Bar Link
  
  
  WARRANTY STATUS:
  Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
  IMPORTANT: Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.
  
  OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
  100805A 2008-2010 Focus: Includes Diagnosing With Chassis Ears And Road Test, Labor Operation Should Be Claimed With B, C, D, E, F Or G (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.8 Hr.
  100805B 2008-2010 Focus: Replace Four (4) Stabilizer Bar End Link Nuts Or Stabilizer Bar End Links, Labor Operation Can Be Claimed With A, C, D, E, F And G (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.2 Hr.
  100805C 2008-2010 Focus: Replace One (1) Upper Strut Bearing Or Strut Assembly, Labor Operation Can Be Claimed With A, B, E, F, And G (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.5 Hr.
  100805D 2008-2010 Focus: Replace Both (2) Sides Upper Strut Bearings Or Strut Assemblies, Labor Operation Can Be Claimed With A, B, F And G (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.8 Hr.
  100805E 2008-2010 Focus: Tighten Both (2) Sides Upper Strut Bearing Retainers, Labor Operation Can Be Claimed With A, B, F And G (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.1 Hr.
  100805F 2008-2010 Focus: Replace One (1) Lower Control Arm, Labor Operation Can Be Claimed With A, B, C, D And E (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.3 Hr.
  100805G 2008-2010 Focus: Replace Both (2) Sides Lower Control Arms, Labor Operation Can Be Claimed With A, B, C, D, E And F (Do Not Use With Any Labor Operations Outside Of This Article) 0.4 Hr.
  
  
  DEALER CODING
  BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
  3B438 24

[Dee_82]

its fine on corners, just certain braking and acceleration situations but ill check to see if the strut is torq'd up, ive checked the right side engine mount which is also fine, it was replaced about 6 months ago but the lower mount is the original one, I'm actually having trouble finding the correct finis code for that one.

normal braking and normal acceleration, no problems, jump on the brake I will get a single clunk, do  it again and nothing will happen, accelerate hard it may clunk once, do it again and nothing will happen, at this point I can jump on the brake and it will clunk again and  so on.

to me it sounds like something is moving position under acceleration where it sits still until something forces it back again.

I just cant nail it down

 

[F0CUE]

Done a quick search and came up with this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272377436090

Is it when you change gear up or down it clunk's do you drop gears when stopping?

[Dee_82]

nope, the DMF is on its way out so clunks a lot, she done 108k so the clutch is probably on its way out as well but the clunk I'm talking about will happen with the clutch fully pressed in for hard braking or in neutral. so I don't think its transmition related, unless the whole engine is shifting forward and back

there is no cluck under acceleration in neutral and when in gear it will only cluck the once, it will need me to jump on the brake pedal before it will do it again.

not sure about that part, microcat has this as the part listed but ford parts uk lists that as being for a different engine to my 1.6 tdci, also not sure if both parts need replaced or not, doing it is easy enough but ive not seen a whole lot of folk doing this mount so not sure what to look for to see if it needs being replaced. 

 

[Dee_82]

the other thing with that part is that it comes in two parts, replacing the two is about 90 quid, obviously id rather no do them if they don't need done but if I do, id rather not change them both if only one of them needs doing.

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

there is no cluck under acceleration in neutral and when in gear it will only cluck the once, it will need me to jump on the brake pedal before it will do it again.

Braking does not put much stress on the driveshafts or transmission, especially if you brake in neutral or with the clutch in.

The braking stress goes directly to the suspension joints. So what you describe mainly points to suspension & sub-frame.

Maybe engine mounts are a possible suspect, as the weight of the engine when braking will stress them a bit.

Any noises from the front subframe and all its attached bits will tend to couple directly to the driver's footwell, via the steering shaft. I found this when trying to locate wheel bearing noise. A mike in the footwell under the carpet picked up any noises from the front suspension very well. It did not tell me which bearing it was though!

 

[Dee_82]

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 2:15 AM, Tdci-Peter said:

Braking does not put much stress on the driveshafts or transmission, especially if you brake in neutral or with the clutch in.

The braking stress goes directly to the suspension joints. So what you describe mainly points to suspension & sub-frame.

Maybe engine mounts are a possible suspect, as the weight of the engine when braking will stress them a bit.

Any noises from the front subframe and all its attached bits will tend to couple directly to the driver's footwell, via the steering shaft. I found this when trying to locate wheel bearing noise. A mike in the footwell under the carpet picked up any noises from the front suspension very well. It did not tell me which bearing it was though!

 

it seems you were spot on, I changed the NS control arm and drop link today, all the noises have stopped, in fact I'm blown away  how much quieter it is I had a play with the only control arm and the bush was utterly destroyed.  thanks for the help with this, my mind is finally at ease!

[k_j_jacobs]

On 4/19/2017 at 9:17 PM, Dee_82 said:

nope, the DMF is on its way out so clunks a lot, she done 108k so the clutch is probably on its way out as well but the clunk I'm talking about will happen with the clutch fully pressed in for hard braking or in neutral. so I don't think its transmition related, unless the whole engine is shifting forward and back

there is no cluck under acceleration in neutral and when in gear it will only cluck the once, it will need me to jump on the brake pedal before it will do it again.

not sure about that part, microcat has this as the part listed but ford parts uk lists that as being for a different engine to my 1.6 tdci, also not sure if both parts need replaced or not, doing it is easy enough but ive not seen a whole lot of folk doing this mount so not sure what to look for to see if it needs being replaced. 

 

where can i get a copy of the Illiustrated parts catalogue for the mk 2.5??

[Dee_82]

you can buy access to it....