Lost key fob

[Scottt]

Hello all,

i have a ford focus 05, it only came with the secondary key so now i am trying to get a master key.

So far, i have the flip key with remote all programmed and cut, however they key didn't come with a transponder for the immobilizer.

i need to buy one but i don't know which is the correct one. i plan to take it to a key cutting shop to get it programmed.

i refuse to pay ford £185 + vat for something that i have found for £11.99 for the key and remote.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

[Phil21185]

Is that a late Mk1.5 or an early Mk2?

I would guess from the fact you have a flip key that its a Mk2 (unless like me you went to ridiculous lengths to modify a flip key for a mk1 =])

Any reputable auto locksmith should be able to program your existing key (or provide the correct PATS chip) in about 5 minutes for no more than £50.

Someone else on here has a lockie provide and program a flip key for only £60...

[Stoney871]

Definitely avoid Dealerships, they charge the earth and will refuse to process self-sourced keys.
Places like Timpsons supply keys but they are often cheap rubbish and just clone them rather than programming them properly.
Independent auto locksmiths are far better.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Devonboy]

16 hours ago, Scottt said:

Hello all,

i have a ford focus 05, it only came with the secondary key so now i am trying to get a master key.

So far, i have the flip key with remote all programmed and cut, however they key didn't come with a transponder for the immobilizer.

i need to buy one but i don't know which is the correct one. i plan to take it to a key cutting shop to get it programmed.

i refuse to pay ford £185 + vat for something that i have found for £11.99 for the key and remote.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

The man you want is David "The Lock Doc"     07970-2562578        He lives in East London.

[Scottt]

ok so this is what i have found so far, then its a matter of taking it somewhere to get it reprogrammed.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-4D-ID60-Ceramic-Transponder-Chip-for-Ford-Connect-Fiesta-Focus-Ka-Mondeo-/200978919178?epid=1888314202&hash=item2ecb46ef0a:g:L0MAAOxysstSaNtc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4D-ID60-Ceramic-Transponder-Chip-for-Ford-Connect-Fiesta-Focus-Ka-Mondeo-/232337669735?epid=1888314202&hash=item3618677e67:g:AEAAAOSwZ4dZGsQP

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4D63-80bit-Car-Carbon-Transponder-Chip-For-Ford-Focus-Mazda-2-3-5-6-Remote-Key-/401342636084?hash=item5d71e2a034:g:HMoAAOSwYvFZN8qK

 

[Scottt]

23 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

Is that a late Mk1.5 or an early Mk2?

I would guess from the fact you have a flip key that its a Mk2 (unless like me you went to ridiculous lengths to modify a flip key for a mk1 =])

Any reputable auto locksmith should be able to program your existing key (or provide the correct PATS chip) in about 5 minutes for no more than £50.

Someone else on here has a lockie provide and program a flip key for only £60...

i have a mk2 its an 05 plate

[Phil21185]

49 minutes ago, Scottt said:

ok so this is what i have found so far, then its a matter of taking it somewhere to get it reprogrammed.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-4D-ID60-Ceramic-Transponder-Chip-for-Ford-Connect-Fiesta-Focus-Ka-Mondeo-/200978919178?epid=1888314202&hash=item2ecb46ef0a:g:L0MAAOxysstSaNtc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4D-ID60-Ceramic-Transponder-Chip-for-Ford-Connect-Fiesta-Focus-Ka-Mondeo-/232337669735?epid=1888314202&hash=item3618677e67:g:AEAAAOSwZ4dZGsQP

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4D63-80bit-Car-Carbon-Transponder-Chip-For-Ford-Focus-Mazda-2-3-5-6-Remote-Key-/401342636084?hash=item5d71e2a034:g:HMoAAOSwYvFZN8qK

 

 

I know you said in your first post that it didn't come with the transponder chip but are you sure? The ones in those links are the right kind (ceramic as opposed to the glass torpedo type in the mk1) but I am not sure if there are any variances to be aware of.

Again, an auto locksmith will be able to provide the correct PATS chip and code it to your car for £50 tops, all in.

[Stoney871]

Mk2's will have no problem with the carbon transponder chips as that's what used as standard.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[eddie eastwood]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221429062975?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&utm_source=FordOwnersClub&utm_medium=ForumLinks&utm_campaign=referrals

[ScaniaPBman]

I can recommend this seller on eBay.

He did a good focus Mk2.5 flip key for me.

 

55 minutes ago, eddie eastwood said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221429062975?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&utm_source=FordOwnersClub&utm_medium=ForumLinks&utm_campaign=referrals

 

[SenorC77]

2 hours ago, ScaniaPBman said:

I can recommend this seller on Ebay.

He did a good focus Mk2.5 flip key for me.

 

 

When I brought my Focus it came with a replacement key only so the remote central locking doesn't work.  How straight forward is the re-coding procedure?  

[mama_bear]

What if you've got push button start are the more to buy and program or is it the same key 

[Phil21185]

4 hours ago, SenorC77 said:

When I brought my Focus it came with a replacement key only so the remote central locking doesn't work.  How straight forward is the re-coding procedure?  

There are two parts that need to be coded to work with your car.

1, the immobiliser chip (PATS). If this I not present or correctly coded to your car, the key will not disable the immobiliser. An auto locksmith is the only way to go to code a chip on mk2 and later. Shouldn't cost more than £50.

2, the remote fob. As long as it has a working battery, any remote fob will work (as long as it's actually meant for your model of car I mean). You can pair the fob to your car as long as you have another key which will start the car (ie has a working PATS chip in it).

Someone (probably clive or wilco =D) will be long to verify or correct my procedure but it runs something like:

Turn the ignition from position 2 (full ignition on but engine not cranking) to 0 (or off) either 3 or 4 times in quick succession. 

The car should beep to signal that it is in learning mode.

Press a button on the fob. The car should either beep or respond to the button pressed (lock/unlock etc).

Fob is now paired.

A correctly paired fob will still operate the central locking even if it doesn't have a PATS chip that works with your car.

 

[Tdci-Peter]

4 hours ago, mama_bear said:

What if you've got push button start are the more to buy and program or is it the same key 

Push button start will have a different, and probably more expensive key.

The normal PATS key has a very short range, it has be be in almost direct contact with the igntion lock barrel to work. The Push button start has to read the immobiliser code at a greater distance, and I think it uses the same RF circuit as the remote control to do this.

But the procedure for programming for a new key will be similar, and normally needs a computer connected to the diagnostic socket in the car.

It is the car that is normally programmed for the key, not the key for the car. That applies to KeyFree & keyed systems. Programming the key to match an existing key is called cloning, and can cause some problems. But it seems to be increasingly widely used.

[SenorC77]

10 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

There are two parts that need to be coded to work with your car.

1, the immobiliser chip (PATS). If this I not present or correctly coded to your car, the key will not disable the immobiliser. An auto locksmith is the only way to go to code a chip on mk2 and later. Shouldn't cost more than £50.

2, the remote fob. As long as it has a working battery, any remote fob will work (as long as it's actually meant for your model of car I mean). You can pair the fob to your car as long as you have another key which will start the car (ie has a working PATS chip in it).

 

AFAIK the immobiliser is working as when I turn the engine off and put the steering lock on the red light flashes on the dash which would imply I have a PATS chip.  That is unless I'm well wide of the mark with how the immobiliser works that is 

The key I have though is a box standard after market job and doesn't have any buttons on it at all which makes me wonder if it does have a chip at all?

If it does then theoretically I should be able to get the chip out of my key and into a new one.  That said I cant see a way of splitting my key easily.

If it doesn't then I'll have to get a locksmith to code a chip as well as still needing a replacement key so its looking like heading to a locksmith, like the chap recommended above, for the whole lot is probably the best bet then.

Unless someone can recommend a decent auto locksmith in kent?

[Phil21185]

16 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

 

It is the car that is normally programmed for the key, not the key for the car. That applies to KeyFree & keyed systems. Programming the key to match an existing key is called cloning, and can cause some problems. But it seems to be increasingly widely used.

ah that's interesting information. 

Senor, that looks like a key from a cutter like Timpson so it probably has a fixed pats chip in the body and was probably cloned from another key. 

Definitely best to get a locksmith to sort you out a proper one =D

[eddie eastwood]

http://www.jmakeys.co.uk/productosdetalle.aspx?idcategoria=1&IdSubcategoria=3&idFamilia=34

[SenorC77]

4 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

Senor, that looks like a key from a cutter like Timpson so it probably has a fixed pats chip in the body and was probably cloned from another key. 

Definitely best to get a locksmith to sort you out a proper one =D

That's cool, will chase that up over the weekend.  Thanks Phil 

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, eddie eastwood said:

http://www.jmakeys.co.uk/productosdetalle.aspx?idcategoria=1&IdSubcategoria=3&idFamilia=34

That is also interesting!

So that is a major source of these clone-able keys. And they get to sell their cloning machine to lots of key cutters too.

The advantage of cloning is it can be done in the shop, with no access to the car needed.

One disadvantage is if a key is stolen, or lost and suspected stolen. Say someone nicks your jacket or bag, with a key in it. All they need do is go out into the car park, & press a button. The correct car conveniently lights up and may beep. But maybe they do not want to nick it then, they may have a whole bunch of keys. They have the key and reg no, and can steal the car, or sell it to someone who wants to steal the car, anytime. That is just one scenario, there are others.

When a key is lost or compromised, you will want to delete it from the car, really. Normally this is quite straightforward, at least for a dealer, auto-locksmith or experienced Forscan user. The remote is easy, just the standard re-programming procedure will delete all keys not re-programmed in that session. But PATS (immobiliser) is, as usual, harder.

On most Fords, at least two different PATS codes must be programmed in to it before it will start. If you had two non-cloned (different code) keys, you just get one more key, check it can be added to the car ok, erase one or all keys, and add the new & one remaining keys, and off you go. If a cloned key is stolen, the remaining cloned key is no good, you will have to get two new, different code keys, and erase then add the two new keys.

If you have an older, lower value car, this may not be important. But I think that if an insurance company knows a key has been stolen, and has not been deleted from the car, they may have grounds to refuse to pay up for theft of the car.

(Forscan is a diy system that can reprogramme PATS on Mk2 Focus & many other similar Fords. I do not think it can work on a Mk3 Focus, that seems to be a Ford dealer only job at present. Also using it for PATS programming is not easy, and a bit scary. Well it scares me anyway .)

 

[pizzaman122]

if any 1 in north east has a spare key and they want a new transponder coded(copied of there main key)

I have a new handy baby key programmer and I have id 4d/c chips and id46 in at min and g chips due anytime soon

 

this will be cost price saves u getting robbed off dealers for transponders coding(u must have a transponder key to make u a new transponder chip)

and I like to help people out and save them money

also do vw's aswell as other cars

[pizzaman122]

also have g chips in now

does new ford focus 2015 I done and works perfect

[Phil21185]

Much of this thread is aimed at steering people away from cloned keys, for the various reasons outlined by several users.

I am sure you are trying to be helpful, but it probably does not come across as very confidence-inspiring when you are quite clearly a new user, known to nobody on the board, offering to clone people's keys at cost. A tad suspicious...

As I said, I'm sure your intentions are good and that you are well-meaning, bit again, it is inadvisable to simply clone an existing car key.

 

[pizzaman122]

sorry m8 just thought I was helping people out

I will retract my offer until I get more established

[Phil21185]

Fair enough - I'm sure you do mean to be helpful, but as I say there are quite a few problems having keys cloned rather than having unique keys coded. 

It's not really about how established you are, though that is helpful in vouching for you, but people who don't know more need to be advised of the pros and cons of things like this really - a cloned key is, I suppose better than nothing if you desperately need a spare, but ideally you should always code a unique key.

That. And Clive has got his eye on you now .

Anyway, welcome to the forum - I hope you do settle in despite me jumping on you 

 

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, pizzaman122 said:

also have g chips in now

does new ford focus 2015 I done and works perfect

 

1 hour ago, Phil21185 said:

but people who don't know more need to be advised of the pros and cons of things like this really

That is my thought, almost exactly.

With the Mk3 Focus, and I guess most later Fords, the alternatives are being ripped off by the dealer network, charging whatever they want, or getting a cloned key. I do not know of any other option at present.

With the Mk2, there are other options, like Forscan or a decent auto-locksmith.

But I think it is very important to distinguish between the approved method of getting a key with a new code where the car is programmed for the new key, and cloning a key where the user ends up with multiple keys with the same code.

Normally it makes no difference, but when something goes wrong,  like either a car module has to be replaced, or a key is stolen, then it can make a huge difference.

So the important thing is to be informative and honest, and make sure customers know which type of key they are getting.

-----

Ford, and many other companies like Microsoft, like to rely on security through secrecy. All good security systems rely on security through logic or mathematical proof, and can not be practically breached despite the crook knowing exactly how it all works. Secret systems never remain secret for long, the crooks soon get hold of the secret information.

The radio code system is a mockery, anyone can buy them for a few quid off eBay. Ford odometers can be wound back by certain companies, who charge a lot to do it, they have obviously broken the security. The Mk2 PATS code incode - outcode system has been broken, and is freely available on the internet, so now has no security value. These systems now just annoy or cost ordinary owners a lot, and do nothing to prevent crime. It is just bad, lazy, design, and a desire to keep it "in the family", so dealers can make loads of money, which keeps them faithful to the Mother corporation.

Bah! Sorry for the rant, but it does annoy me!