Starter motor trouble

[Adam G]

Evening all,

I’d appreciate some advice if possible.

Over the past month my 2002 1.8 tddi has struggled to start, regardless of whether it’s a hot or cold engine. Usually 5 seconds of turning over before it fires up. 

This morning it tried to start for a few seconds but then lost any turning power. 

Must be the battery then. Or so I thought. This evening I fitted a new battery and turned the key but only got a click from the engine bay fuse box. 

I got under the car and gave the starter motor a tap with a rubber mallet and then when turning the key there was a loud click coming from the starter. Tapping it a few times while someone else turned the key got a few grinding noises from the starter and at one point sparks came from it. 

All the lights still work but I’ve also tried jumping it just in case it is a faulty battery. No change.

Surely I need to just replace the starter motor. Would you agree or could there be something else causing these symptoms? I’d be keen to hear your thoughts before I start replacing parts unnecessarily. 

Thanks

Adam

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, Adam G said:

Surely I need to just replace the starter motor. Would you agree or could there be something else causing these symptoms?

When it was taking 5 sec of turning to start, I assume it was turning over a bit slowly. It can be difficult to tell, if the problem comes on slowly, but obvious when fixed and it then turns over at normal speed. Most diesels need a certain rpm (mine is about 200rpm) before it will try to fire.

It certainly sounds like the starter motor or its solenoid to me. Sometimes you can get the solenoid separately, but it is hard to find, and if there is a problem with the motor, then it is no help. I fixed my dodgy starter with a new solenoid costing £21, but I was fairly sure it was the solenoid, as cleaning & contact cleaner inside the old solenoid did fix it for a while.

If not sure, it will be simplest to just replace the motor/solenoid assembly, though a lot more expensive!

[Adam G]

Thanks Peter. I’ll have a go and report back. 

Thankfully my starter motor is at the very front and bottom of the engine rather than buried deep behind everything like it is in most Focuses. Shouldn’t be too much trouble (famous last words...)

[isetta]

does that car have the dual mass flywheel which wears and creates loads of iron filings which then get attracted to the starter motor (due to the magnets in it) and clog it all up.  You might remove the starter motor and find this. I know people have had this problem on 1.8tdci, I don't know if 1.8tddi has same flywheel.

It does sound like you may need a new starter motor, but even if it is the iron filing problem you need to remove the stater motor, so take it off and have a look. If it is the iron filing problem you might be able to clean it all up (and get as much out from the starter motor hole also). 

Years ago I would dismantle the starter motor and replace the carbon brushes and recut the grooves in the commutator segments as neccessary depending what the fault was.. 

[Adam G]

Gah! I replaced the starter motor and the problem seems the same. 

When the key is turned I can hear a loud click from the starter motor but nothing else at all. There is also a little smoke coming from the connections. Could just be the damp or maintenance spray. Surely it couldn’t be the solenoid burning out. Could it?  

Im sure that before all this when I would turn the key to let the glow plugs warm I would hear a hum before I turned to fire but there’s no hum now. This might just be my poor memory but would one of you mind checking your diesel and letting me know please?

Thanks for your suggestion, Isetta. No sign of any debris in there. It looked clean and no damaged teeth.

Any other ideas before I cave in and call in the professionals?

[TomsFocus]

Damaged battery cable would be my guess, could be live or earth cable.  Letting enough current through for the solenoid but not enough to power the motor.

[Adam G]

Thanks Tom. That would explain why engine activity is dead since changing the battery. I have been quite rough with folding the cables back to keep them away from the terminals and perhaps they’ve become damaged as a result.

I can’t see any damage but I’ve booked a chap to come and test it on Monday. 

[wilto]

Is the engine turning over freely by hand?

[Adam G]

2 minutes ago, wilto said:

Is the engine turning over freely by hand?

Hi Wilto, I haven’t taken off the cam belt cover to try. 

[wilto]

Try and get a socket or a spanner on the crankshaft pulley and try to rotate it, just to eliminate a seized engine.

[Adam G]

I’ll have a razz in the light tomorrow...

[isetta]

or on level ground put car in top gear and push the car.   or jack up front wheel, put car in top gear and try turning the wheel.  Make sure ignition is off as you don't want it suddenly starting (unlikely but don't risk it)

[Adam G]

Engine turns fine with a spanner on the crankshaft pulley so not seized.

I should know the cause of the problem this time tomorrow. I’ll report back. 

Thanks again for the tips all. 

[Adam G]

Problem solved, car fixed! 

It was the starter motor after all. Turns out I had been given a duff one by the breakers yard. A reconditioned one has been fitted and now it starts better than ever.

£192 all-in including collection.  I can live with that considering it’s the first pro job the Focus has needed in the 3 years I’ve had it. 

Thanks for the advice to help me eliminate the other potential problems guys. 

Adam 

[Guest]

I was having problems with my starter, a few turns of nothing and clicking(relay?) I went to ECP got a new(MTX) one online with 30% discount.