Delphi quality (track control arms)

[briscaF1]

Anyone have experience of Delphi parts? I know they're an OEM quality supplier but their arms are cheaper than trw / lemforder etc.

Just bought 2 for £56 each and wondered if I'd have been better off spending an extra 30 a side.

 

[TomsFocus]

I've got the Delphi ones as said in your last thread lol.  Sure I paid about a tenner more so check you've got the 21mm BJ instead of 18mm.

They're not horrific (I've seen some awful cheap ones!) but not to original quality on the rubber imo, though you'd have to spend an extra £100 each to get the genuine ones so for the cost they're alright...  The TRWs didn't look any better on the rubber or welds, they were the same price as the Delphi's when I bought mine but don't know if they'd feel any better on the road.

[stef123]

does anyone know who makes the genuine ford ones? could well be lemforder for all i know. 

[briscaF1]

hehe. Sorry for making another thread on the same issue.

The arms are TC2253/TC225x which are the 21mm ones which are equivalent to Ford p/n's 1570284/1570285. I rang a Ford parts dept and they quoted those part numbers being OK for my car so I'm presuming theyr'e correct.

Pain in the ar*e this issue is as the history of getting these is:

1. At last MOT, 10 months ago, tester said front bushes were looking "tired" and would probably need replacing in the next 1-2 years.

2. Tyres wearing out on inner edge (down to cords) despite not being worn to depth markers across tyre width.

3. Tyre place checked tracking 3 months ago and said it was spot on.

4. Tyre place replacing tyres 2 weeks ago said there was play in the suspension "probably causing tyre wear."

5. Two days ago, I ordered these lower arm parts from Mister Auto (UK seller, Ebay) - they seem to have good pricing...

6. Yesterday, I took the car to the garage that did the power steering pipe who had forgotten to put the engine undertray back on. I asked them to check the track rods/bushes for play and they put it on the shakers and said it was all fine.

7. Above prompts a discussion about the tyre wear and mechanic says best not to track Focus with toe in - best to do it "parallel" as they don't eat tyres and it drives better.

8. Wishbones delivered today...dunno whether to put them on or not now or track it differently!

 

On costs, Bristol St Ford quoted me an eye watering £225 a side (inc vat) for Ford lower arms. I've seen a Ford dealer on eBay doing them for £165 each. Mister Auto flog Lemforder for about £88 each, TRW about £70 each and Delphi £55 each (reduced from £95, apparently).

The brake caliper is sticking on the front driver's side so it's getting caliper sorted plus discs and pads next week (mechanic mate will help us with it) - we'll have another look at the suspension when that happens, I guess.

[Micro]

Are you replacing them yourself each side, or getting a garage to do it?

I did mine myself, and as a result bought cheaper (Unipart) arms (although still from a known brand with a guarantee), because if they do go again (in the warranty period), itll be a couple hours max to swap them over. 

Mine were £35 each, and I found some as low as £50 a pair, so yours are not the cheapest by any stretch. Mine came well packaged, rubber seemed good quality with no cracks or crazing out of the packaging, and compared with the arms that came off the car appeared identical even down to mould marks. They fit pretty good too if it wasn't for my initial "dainty" approach to putting them on...

[briscaF1]

A friend of mine will be doing it with my assistance so not a lot to lose by doing them but when someone says they're fine....

I checked out unipart from your previous suggestion but the customer service person there wasn't terribly helpful. 21mm ones from there are £66 a side now so looks like the prices have shot up.

I think these Delphi ones are guaranteed for 2 years so I'd expect them to last 3 at least and I'll have changed cars by then most probably

 

 

[TomsFocus]

The point of tracking the Focus with toe in is because of those bushes.  As you drive forward, the wishbones are actually forced backwards slightly which changes the geometry, so the toe in while stationary becomes parallel while heading straight ahead. (If that makes sense!)  If you fit firmer wishbone bushes, they should be tracked parallel as they wont move like the comfort spec ones do.

If you track it parallel on standard bushes you end up with toe out on the move which wears out the inside edges inside (how I bought my Focus).

Do you have xenons btw?  Can't remember if I asked before but you'll need a rivnut for the level sensor if so.  You also need a 21mm spanner for the BJ nut...biggest I had was 19mm so had to make do with a 'self-loosening' adjustable spanner which was fun...I'd have bought a 21mm one if I'd known beforehand.

 

[briscaF1]

It's got halogens. I think it had the sports pack which is 17" wheels and (so I've been told) sports suspension which may have meant harder springs ?

[briscaF1]

Wrt tracking, that's the conversation I had at the first check - I asked if the toe in was to allow for the front wheels to splay out when in motion and the guy said it was.

I guess what it says in the autodata book is what it should be

[briscaF1]

Put the Delphi arms on tonight - easier than I expected, to be honest.

The old bushes were not destroyed but appeared to have started to break up with the passenger side rear being pretty weak and easy to manipulate.

Would have put the pads and discs on had the right pads been supplied - Focus Mk1...when it was clearly stated that the car was made in 2010. Cheers GSF ;-)

Checked the tracking and it was about 0.5 deg toe in. Information I have found suggests +/- 0.2 deg. Adverse tyre wear apparently occurs at -1.5 deg.

Would anyone bother correcting this 0.5 deg?

 

[Micro]

1 hour ago, briscaF1 said:

Put the Delphi arms on tonight - easier than I expected, to be honest.

The old bushes were not destroyed but appeared to have started to break up with the passenger side rear being pretty weak and easy to manipulate.

Same as mine, rubber deteriorated, some of it falling out of the nearside. My drop links were shot too so glad I got replacements!

[TomsFocus]

10 hours ago, briscaF1 said:

Put the Delphi arms on tonight - easier than I expected, to be honest.

The old bushes were not destroyed but appeared to have started to break up with the passenger side rear being pretty weak and easy to manipulate.

Would have put the pads and discs on had the right pads been supplied - Focus Mk1...when it was clearly stated that the car was made in 2010. Cheers GSF ;-)

Checked the tracking and it was about 0.5 deg toe in. Information I have found suggests +/- 0.2 deg. Adverse tyre wear apparently occurs at -1.5 deg.

Would anyone bother correcting this 0.5 deg?

 

0.5 degrees is quite a lot, sure that's right?  Yes, I'd have that adjusted personally.

[briscaF1]

I dunno. My mate has got some Dunlop mirror tracking setup and I didn't get a straight answer. I think he'd had enough by the time we'd done the arms and I'll have to go back round to sort the brakes out this week. I'll take a closer look then.

 

What should it be? +/-0.2 degrees?

[stef123]

what engine have you got, I've just had a look at autodata for a 1.6 petrol 2010 and it says for front toe in   0° 06' ± 0° 09' 

Thats measured in degrees and minutes if you are wondering. (there are 60 minutes in a degree) 

 

[TomsFocus]

On 26/11/2017 at 1:47 PM, briscaF1 said:

I'm not sure how accurate those DIY trackers are?  I tried it with bits of string and gave up lol.  Had it done properly in the end £50 for front and rear on a Hunter machine.  Not cheap but over 2 months later I don't have any edge wear showing.  This is the diesel Haynes, I can't work out the degrees symbol on here so it's easier to add a pic...

 

[Russ]

I’ve added arrows to your pic to show the sign for ‘degrees’ & the sign for ‘minutes’

ie the the first figure under ‘degrees arrow’ is showing 0.36 degrees, the figure under ‘minutes arrow’ is showing minus 1 degree 58 minutes  ( the little o after 0.36 denotes degrees - the same after the 1. The ‘ after the 58 denotes minutes ...... hope that doesn’t confuse you )

[TomsFocus]

Thanks Russ...  I meant I couldn't find the degrees symbol on the keyboard though lol... 

[stef123]

hold alt and press 0176 ° 

alt 241 if you want ± 

[TomsFocus]

Just spent 5 minutes trying that, as soon as I press Alt 0 I end up back on the main forum page before having the chance to hit the other numbers.   

It was far easier to take and upload the picture.  

 

[briscaF1]

Hi,

Thanks for the replies.

I spoke to my mate again and he said it was "0.3 of the way towards 1 deg on the scale" (it's a proper Dunlop tracking gauge with mirrors that you'd find in many tyre places). He said that it was toeing in, too, but we can check again tonight.

I had "0.3 of a degree" down as 0.3*60 = 18 minutes.  Or, (the alt doesn't work for me) 0 deg 18'

That puts it in line with the 0 deg 6' +/- 0 deg 15' in the book photo above but just outside of the 0 deg 6' +/- 0 deg 9' that Stef has quoted.

If we check again and it's "0.3 of a degree toe in", I'm inclined to leave it as it is, I think, unless someone can suggest that it's better to try to set it towards the other end of the scale (i.e. [ 0 deg 6' ] - [ 0 deg 15' ] = [ - 0 deg 9' ] to see if that stops it chowing on the inner edges of the tyres.

 

 

 

[TomsFocus]

Just checked my tracking sheet, mines set at 12 minutes total toe in and as said I have no problems so far.  Had brand new tyres after so it should be easy to spot.

At 18 minutes toe in you're more likely to get outer edge wear than inner.  Maybe leave it for a bit and check the tyres each week or so?

[stef123]

So i wonder who's right - auto data with front toe in  0° 06' ± 0° 09'  or Haynes with front toe in  0° 06' ± 0° 15' lol

[Micro]

51 minutes ago, stef123 said:

So i wonder who's right - auto data with front toe in  0° 06' ± 0° 09'  or Haynes with front toe in  0° 06' ± 0° 15' lol

Depends on how it's worded in the book I guess   Etis shows

Toe Tolerance Range: 0°06' Toe-in ± 0°15'

Toe Setting Range:      0°06' Toe-in ± 0°09'

http://workshop-manuals.com/ford/focus_2004.75_07.2004/mechanical_repairs/2_chassis/204_suspension/204-00_suspension_system_general_information/specifications/

[Russ]

6 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Thanks Russ...  I meant I couldn't find the degrees symbol on the keyboard though lol... 

Oops, lol. ☺️ As Stef123 said

Typing the ° Degree Symbol. If you would like to make the ° symbol when typing, you can use these methods: On PCs - hold down the Alt key and on the numeric keypad on the right of the keyboard, type 0176, or Alt+ 248 When you release the Alt Key, a °should be there. On Macs - option shift 8.

 

[TomsFocus]

Ah, I only tried the number keys along the top which didn't work, will try the right hand ones next time I'm on the laptop!