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Juddering


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I have had a juddering feeling with the car when pulling away from a junction, especially in the mornings when the engine is still cold.  Its has been on and off for a while but not really getting any worst as far as I can tell, but it is definitely noticeable and I try to pull out a bit slower when it happens.  It is only at the point of pulling away in 1st gear and does not happen in 2nd or 3rd at all, and much less often after the first few miles of a journey.  Do you think this is a sign of the clutch or DMF on their way out?  I only ask because another thread made a link between this kind behaviour and clutch/flywheel issues.  The car has 130k miles on the clock and still on these original parts.  Thanks for any feedback 

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It's probably condensation on the clutch plates. Every (modern) car I have owned seem to do this occasionally and only on damp winter morning when first pulling off.

If you Google clutch judder when cold there's about 50 pages of it on every car made!

I think it happened when they stopped using asbestos.

Manufactures fix seems to be a software update that highers the idle revs.

Some say riding the clutch in fifth helps as a temporary fix, I find higher revs and letting the pedal out very slowly stops it.

It's only the first pull out, only on wet mornings.   

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14 minutes ago, stratoc said:

It's probably condensation on the clutch plates. Every (modern) car I have owned seem to do this occasionally and only on damp winter morning when first pulling off.

If you Google clutch judder when cold there's about 50 pages of it on every car made!

I think it happened when they stopped using asbestos.

Manufactures fix seems to be a software update that highers the idle revs.

Some say riding the clutch in fifth helps as a temporary fix, I find higher revs and letting the pedal out very slowly stops it.

It's only the first pull out, only on wet mornings.   

Bring back Manual Chokes!! 

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The other thread was probably mine?  I've had it on cold, damp mornings for the 3+ years I owned the mk2, it's the few pulls for me though, 3 or 4 at least.  Can't say I've ever noticed it on any other car but it's never got any worse so it probably is just condensation on the clutch, which is then accentuated by the DMF bouncing as the clutch slips. 

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"Bring back Manual Chokes!! "  no, don't do that.  But I am of the opinion that Manual chokes were better than automatic chokes on cars with carberretors .

seems a bit archaic now.  some youngsters who have just got a licence would be appalled at having to do something like operate a manual choke that needs some judgment on the part of the driver. they would probably feel the same about having to wind the windows down and up and lock each door separately.  (I am not tarring them all with the same brush)

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Go back a bit further and you have to adjust the timing on the steering wheel as well...  Amazes me how so many people managed to drive Model T's when they came out...always looks like so much effort when I see them at classic rallys.

My first car was SPI so I just missed out on chokes, but it did have manual windows and locks...  I'd be appalled if I had to do that again nowadays as well, tbh I was appalled to find some cars still don't have one touch windows! :laugh:  But it's the same as the internet really, people currently moaning they only get ~10MB in rural areas, it wasn't that long ago we were on 56k and couldn't use the phone at the same time. :lol: 

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Thanks all, that reassures me that I am not looking at an imminent big repair bill!  As per Tom's comments, it happens for the first few junctions in the morning and I hadn't made the link with it happening mainly on damp days.  I drive hire cars quite often and never really noticed it on those, but probably will now that I know.

Driving an (relatively) old car makes me wish for it to be simpler to work out what is wrong and be able to fix it without plugging a computer to it, but there are definitely things I would not want to go back to such as those mentioned above.  I don't really rate all the newer features being offered nowadays such as traction control, lane assist, self parking etc because I like to have control of the driving myself but who knows, maybe we might all look back in 20 years and say we can't live without them...

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42 minutes ago, isetta said:

"Bring back Manual Chokes!! "  no, don't do that.  But I am of the opinion that Manual chokes were better than automatic chokes on cars with carberretors .

seems a bit archaic now.  some youngsters who have just got a licence would be appalled at having to do something like operate a manual choke that needs some judgment on the part of the driver. they would probably feel the same about having to wind the windows down and up and lock each door separately.  (I am not tarring them all with the same brush)

They don't know what they are missing!

30 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Go back a bit further and you have to adjust the timing on the steering wheel as well...  Amazes me how so many people managed to drive Model T's when they came out...always looks like so much effort when I see them at classic rallys.

My first car was SPI so I just missed out on chokes, but it did have manual windows and locks...  I'd be appalled if I had to do that again nowadays as well, tbh I was appalled to find some cars still don't have one touch windows! :laugh:  But it's the same as the internet really, people currently moaning they only get ~10MB in rural areas, it wasn't that long ago we were on 56k and couldn't use the phone at the same time. :lol: 

I am 33, and the first car I drove after passing was my mums B-Reg Astra :blush: The manual choke was great, could use it as cruise control hahaha

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My first car was an 850 Mini, sliding windows and a pull-cord to open the doors :biggrin: At least it did have the wonderful SU carburetter, so much better than the solex fitted to the Fords of the time, plus an electric fuel pump that occasionally needed a kick to encourage it back into action.

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I used to have the same with my Punto which soon cleared up after a couple of pulls. I have no such problems with my 15 year old Focus. I do like how the thread evolved though :-) My first car was a 76 Mk2 Escort which was very basic, but what I replaced it with was even more so, a 68 Mk1 Escort. The bonnet was opened from the outside but no key was required, anyone could have done it. I could even start that car with anything that would fit in the ignition.

I don't miss old cars for some reasons, but I do miss them for a lot of reasons. I always loved the look of the Mk1 and 2 Escorts, and the simplicity of them. I wasn't afraid to tinker under the bonnet to fix problems myself, which I did with enthusiasm even as a young lad back then, and the money they fetch today is ridiculous, if only I'd kept them lol.

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Hi everyone
sorry if I hijacked this post. I am still finding my way around. I have Ford Focus 2006 MK2, 2.0 petrol.

I am having a few issues. I have tried to find a fuel filter and I can’t seem to find one. I do see under the car what seems to be a diesel filter housing.

Can help me to understand that??

My second issue is that I can feel a little juddering when I am in 3rd - 5th gear?? I can feel more going up a hill.

It just started to happen last week. I have one of the little mini 0B11 scan tool and I have a done a love data scan on the car.

It shows the voltage of the 02 sensor BANK 1 sensor 1 and BANK 2 sensor 1 as out of range.

Would this cause the juddering issue?. There are no lights on the dash.

Can someone tell what the voltage read for both sensor read at idle???

Thanks in a advance


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On 26/01/2018 at 11:59 PM, MUNK19 said:

Hi everyone
sorry if I hijacked this post. I am still finding my way around. I have Ford Focus 2006 MK2, 2.0 petrol.

I am having a few issues. I have tried to find a fuel filter and I can’t seem to find one. I do see under the car what seems to be a diesel filter housing.

Can help me to understand that??

My second issue is that I can feel a little juddering when I am in 3rd - 5th gear?? I can feel more going up a hill.

It just started to happen last week. I have one of the little mini 0B11 scan tool and I have a done a love data scan on the car.

It shows the voltage of the 02 sensor BANK 1 sensor 1 and BANK 2 sensor 1 as out of range.

Would this cause the juddering issue?. There are no lights on the dash.

Can someone tell what the voltage read for both sensor read at idle???

Thanks in a advance


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The 1.8 and 2.0 petrol engines in the MK2 don't have a serviceable fuel filter as most of us are familiar with from most other engines.  It's just a bit of strainer near the tank and isn't meant o be replaced, it's HIGHLY unlikely any issue you are having is due to that mesh being blocked (it's not a fine mesh by any stretch of the imagination).

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Thank you for your reply. Any ideas on the rest on issues??


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Sounds like you have a misfire causing the juddering - spark plugs and coil pack would be a good place to start looking.  As both lambda sensors are out of voltage, it's probably not those at fault, but they are detecting the overfuel from the misfire.

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My 1.6 tdci fiesta has begun to slightly judder sometimes when moving off now. Noticed a day after coming home and booting it from a halt on my road. My previous car's clutch was worn and that would judder when moving off. My dad managed to move off without making it judder but after changing the clutch on that car (only was £37) it would never judder. It also felt like it was able to move off with more ease with a little more weight. 

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Thanks For you Reply TomsFocus and Zain611 My plan is to do a full service on the car. I will also replace the both sensors as well.

 

MUNK19

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Hello everyone
Just an update on the car. I have done a full service, everything as been changed. I did change both 02 sensor as said I would do. Unfortunately this as not fixed the issues I was experiencing.

I am still experiencing the juddering between 3rd and the 5th gear.

I read somewhere it could be the clutch as well. So today I drove the car on a flat road and tried to pull away in 3rd gear and I was shocked to see the car pull away in that gear. It drove for a little then eventually stalled.

The car was picked up by the last MOT centre for mist on the O/S front shock absorber and both control arms have heavy wear on the back bushing.

Tomorrow if the weather holds up I will do both control Ames and the shock absorber.

I will take if for a test drive after that and I will update on how I get on.

What do you think about this??

I also did a simple test that I saw on you tube on the pencil coils.

So I would start the car and remove each coil to see if the car engine characteristic would change and when I did there was some changes like it would still out.


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I know you pulled away in 3rd as an experiment of sorts, but it definitely isn't recommended. You would need to balance the throttle and clutch to an extent that would put a lot of strain on the clutch to get the car moving at sufficient speed to let it fully out. If it stalled, perhaps you let the clutch out fully before enough speed was achieved? Could you smell clutch afterwards?

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Thanks Steveixty7 for the reply. I have smelt some burning a few days ago but not recently since I drove the car.

I will ask a popular Autocentre to check the clutch for me to confirm it is truly going.

Do you know a realty good way to confirm the clutch is going??

I check with that same popular Autocentre about how much it would cost to change it and I was told £690.

At that price I think I will be doing my first clutch .


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Hi everyone
So as I thought the weather is crapy and I am not able to do any work on the car.


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Hello Stevesixty
I did not smell the clutch afterwards. But isn’t what you say confirm that the clutch is actually gone.

When I did the test I just gently release the clutch pedal while gently pressing the accelerator pedal and the car pulled away before it stalled.

I was told it should have stalled immediately. I am right in thinking that??.


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Hi Wayne. It certainly doesn't sound good for your clutch, but I'm no mechanic. Where is the bite point? I only know that the clutch on my old Punto was almost gone because it was becoming difficult to select 1st gear and reverse was always a crunch. I had to put the clutch pedal to the floor to get a gear and the bite was immediate when I lifted the pedal a millimeter.

Plenty of good mechanically minded, experienced users on here, hopefully someone can help you get to the bottom of your troubles.

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Hi Stevesixty
Thanks for the replay. My bite point is really high. What I would consider high, But saying I had a previous car. Nissan Primera P12 and the bite point on that was high, there was never an issue with selecting a gear.

Sometimes on the Ford When selecting a gear would be an issue. But most times I think it was ok.

The cheapest I found to replace the clutch is £350 but I was so lucky to find a really good deal on fleabay for £77 genuine Ford parts. All 3 parts of the clutch.

At that price and savings it is worth a chance to try and do the job my self.

I am no mechanic as well but I did the timing belt on my 08 Passat




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I personally wouldn't attempt a clutch change. The engine has to come out, without an engine hoist and all the right tools and knowledge, it would be too much for me.

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Hi Stevesixty7

                         i saw a video on the tube on how to do it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJaZhYu_us0 

         are you sure the whole engine has to come out ? or just the gear box as to be separated from the engine and removed??   I have an hoist i had to use it when i the timing belt on the Passat. I have attached a photo.    have you heard of eManualOnline.com?? check them out if you are interested  doing things on your car. i have saved alot of money working with it.

 

there is also a photo of the parts I go for £77.

 

 

 

MUNK19

P_20170415_103512.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

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