Converting From Hydrulic Power Steering to Electric Power Steering.

[Liam40]

Hi Everyone, 

Got a question for you all.

Is it possible to convert my 54 plate (Late 2004) Focus’s hydrulic power steering to electric power steering?

What work would it involve? Would it be an expensive job to get the work done, and would it be worth paying out to have the work done when my car is probably only worth £1000-£1500. Also, would it increase my insurance premium?

Thank you,

Liam.

[dans34]

just out of interest , what would be a pro's of having electric power steering as opposed to the hydraulic  power steering ? 

[TomsFocus]

Electric is much lighter at slow speed so that's the main pro.  It's also a bit more fuel efficient as a hydraulic pump is always leeching a bit of power from the engine, where the electric is only switched on when needed.

However, no Mk1 had EPAS so it's not like you could source used parts from a scrapyard.  It would require a whole new steering rack and column from another car plus steering angle sensors, some sort of speed input and obviously the wiring.  Might be easier to go semi hydraulic like the Mk2 focus diesels...  They have an electric pump on a hydraulic system so you get the weight and feel of hydro with the efficiency of full electric.

Everything is possible with enough time and money but really I don't see that this would be worth the hundreds of pounds it would cost.

[Liam40]

5 hours ago, dans34 said:

just out of interest , what would be a pro's of having electric power steering as opposed to the hydraulic  power steering ? 

Hi,

The pros would be lighter steering at slower speeds and parking would be easier. I had heart surgery 7 months ago, so I’ve got a 11 inch scar down my chest. Even after 7 months I don’t drive my car very much because i can feel it pulling on the chest, so I get a bit tender. 

Thank you,

Liam.

[TomsFocus]

Would be better to spend the money towards the Mk3 Liam, they are full electric PAS and steering is very light for parking, I'm still getting used to it atm lol.  Clutch is also lighter as well if that's causing strain.  And if you get one with park pilot or park assist it should reduce the amount of twisting while reverse parking too.

[Liam40]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Would be better to spend the money towards the Mk3 Liam, they are full electric PAS and steering is very light for parking, I'm still getting used to it atm lol.  Clutch is also lighter as well if that's causing strain.  And if you get one with park pilot or park assist it should reduce the amount of twisting while reverse parking too.

Hi Tom,

Might sound a daft question, but, are you happy with your mk3 Focus, with the way it looks on the front end and a small display in the middle of the dash, is that small screen easy and clear to see? I see you have a Titanium spec which is what I’ll go for, but what engine size it, and what specs do you have on it?

Thank you,

Liam.

[TomsFocus]

I only taxed and insured it yesterday lol, so one town trip and one motorway trip so far...  As with any change of car, it'll take some getting used to.

Honestly I'm not a fan of the front end looks, but I don't see that from the drivers seat lol, and it is growing on me a bit.  The cabin is absolutely fine though, feels much more modern than the mk2.5 and the dash screens are plenty clear enough to see, currently a bit overwhelming with so many buttons on the dash and steering wheel but I'll get used to it.  Sat nav on the centre screen might be a little small but I don't have that option so it just shows audio things.

It's a 1.6TDCi 115ps, wanted a 1.0 Ecoboost really but couldn't find one cheap enough so gone for this instead, just hoping the coated DPF works more efficiently than the additive DPF in my mk2 as that's half the reason for the change.  It's just Titanium spec with no options sadly, although it does have city pack which adds park pilot (thats also clear to see on centre screen) and powerfold mirrors.  

[zain611]

Coming from someone who had hydraulic power steering and moved to electric power steering there was a difference. With my fiesta I noticed it feels lighter to steer when turning. My previous car was a 800kg small city car which had hydraulic power steering. The fiesta steering was lighter compared to a small car with hydraulic power steering. I have driven a mk5 golf GT and that was noticeably lighter. I think that was fully electric. On the fiesta I hear a whine from the electric power steering motor when turning the wheel so it probably works when you turn the wheels rather like on the golf its on all the time. 

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

On 2/1/2018 at 10:19 AM, Liam40 said:

Hi Everyone, 

Got a question for you all.

Is it possible to convert my 54 plate (Late 2004) Focus’s hydrulic power steering to electric power steering?

What work would it involve? Would it be an expensive job to get the work done, and would it be worth paying out to have the work done when my car is probably only worth £1000-£1500. Also, would it increase my insurance premium?

Thank you,

Liam.

Hi,

If you do have any issues with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

[Liam40]

On 02/02/2018 at 11:09 AM, TomsFocus said:

I only taxed and insured it yesterday lol, so one town trip and one motorway trip so far...  As with any change of car, it'll take some getting used to.

Honestly I'm not a fan of the front end looks, but I don't see that from the drivers seat lol, and it is growing on me a bit.  The cabin is absolutely fine though, feels much more modern than the mk2.5 and the dash screens are plenty clear enough to see, currently a bit overwhelming with so many buttons on the dash and steering wheel but I'll get used to it.  Sat nav on the centre screen might be a little small but I don't have that option so it just shows audio things.

It's a 1.6TDCi 115ps, wanted a 1.0 Ecoboost really but couldn't find one cheap enough so gone for this instead, just hoping the coated DPF works more efficiently than the additive DPF in my mk2 as that's half the reason for the change.  It's just Titanium spec with no options sadly, although it does have city pack which adds park pilot (thats also clear to see on centre screen) and powerfold mirrors.  

Hi Tom,

True you don’t see the front end sitting behind the wheel, lol. I’m not a fan either of the front end on the mk3. I use to like the idea of having too many buttons on the dashboard, but now I agree with you that there are too many buttons on a mk3 Titanium. The looks of the front end and less buttons on a mk3.5 are more appealing to me, but the prices might say otherwise. I’ll have to keep waiting for the right Titanium to come along.

You mentioned about the DPF, I take it that’s the Diesel Particle Filter? What’s the difference between the coated DPF and the additive DPF. I’ve heard that the DPFs can get clogged up if the engines don’t get a good constant speed run, say like you only did town and countryside driving. Is this true? Or are the DPFs on modern Diesel engines better now and you don’t have to worry about giving it a good long run? This is the only reason I would stay with Petrol. Unless there was a way of owning a Diesel and not having the worry of the clogging business, maybe giving it some wellie with the right foot in town or countryside to clear the filters out! 😉

Just out of interest Tom, how much was it to tax your Focus for the year?

Thank you,

Liam

[Liam40]

On 02/02/2018 at 9:21 PM, DAN@ADRIAN FLUX said:

Hi,

If you do have any issues with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.

Regards,

Dan.

Hi Dan,

Would converting my car from hydrulic power steering to electric power steering be considered as a modification on my car which would increase my insurance premium?

Liam.

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, Liam40 said:

Hi Tom,

True you don’t see the front end sitting behind the wheel, lol. I’m not a fan either of the front end on the mk3. I use to like the idea of having too many buttons on the dashboard, but now I agree with you that there are too many buttons on a mk3 Titanium. The looks of the front end and less buttons on a mk3.5 are more appealing to me, but the prices might say otherwise. I’ll have to keep waiting for the right Titanium to come along.

You mentioned about the DPF, I take it that’s the Diesel Particle Filter? What’s the difference between the coated DPF and the additive DPF. I’ve heard that the DPFs can get clogged up if the engines don’t get a good constant speed run, say like you only did town and countryside driving. Is this true? Or are the DPFs on modern Diesel engines better now and you don’t have to worry about giving it a good long run? This is the only reason I would stay with Petrol. Unless there was a way of owning a Diesel and not having the worry of the clogging business, maybe giving it some wellie with the right foot in town or countryside to clear the filters out! 😉

Just out of interest Tom, how much was it to tax your Focus for the year?

Thank you,

Liam

I waited for the 1st of Feb so as not to lose out on part of a months tax out of habit...  But the tax on the mk3 1.6TDCi is only £20 for the year...   

Yes the DPF is the diesel particulate filter.  Unless you're doing motorway trips, there isn't really a way to own a modern diesel and not worry about them blocking.  The newer ones are coated so the whole inside of the DPF should be at the same high efficiency level for burning off any soot.  With the additive system, you were basically just throwing some additive into the fuel, pushing it through the engine and hoping there was enough of it and that it ended up in roughly the right place time it got to the DPF...  It never did really work efficiently and the additive itself also created ash which blocks the DPF lol.

Realistically, I don't know that the cDPF will work with my driving yet...  I won't know for another month at least which is a bit of a worry.   I drive on 70mph roads for around 3 days a week, but only for about 10 miles at a time.  And do short and/or town journeys roughly 3 times a week as well.  

If it doesn't work out, I'll have to sell the car and buy some sort of petrol.  But as I can't afford to buy an ecoboost/TSi, I'd have to buy a 'conventional' petrol, reduce my mileage by half to keep fuel costs the same, and pay an extra £150 or so in tax.  It's really not an ideal situation, but there are external factors that forced the change as well.  I was in exactly the same position when I bought the Mk2 back in 2014, couldn't afford petrol running costs so had to hope the DPF would be ok...which it wasn't.

I'm also having some engine issues with the mk3 at the moment.  It's fine on the move, but it's very jumpy and jerky slow speed traffic, car parks, junctions, roundabouts, etc which is not only making me look a bit of an idiot, it doesn't feel safe either.  I thought it was just my clutch control with a new-to-me car but it's not getting better with practice, I've also given it a blast on the motorway in case the DPF needed a clearout as I don't know how the previous owners drove it but again no improvement.  I've got decent diagnostic equipment which shows no faults either.  I've enquired at Ford about an engine ECU update which could cure it, just waiting to hear how much the update would cost.

In summary...unless you're on the motorway every day, I really wouldn't bother with the hassle of a modern diesel.

[Phil21185]

Well I have to say I LOVE my Mk3.  Coming from a 1.5 which had really seen better days, this thing is a breeze!  Granted I've not yet had any unfortunate horrors (touch wood).  I personally love the front end - prefer it to the 3.5 actually, but I've added DRLs and LED indicators to mine which make a big difference.

[TomsFocus]

Just to add to my mk3 issues, my audio is now playing up too, I've been driving it 4 days and had as many issues so far lol...   

Centre screen blanked out for a few minutes on the way out but I thought nothing of it.  On the return trip all audio buttons stopped working (except the volume dial oddly!) including steering wheel buttons for the entire 20 minute trip...

AC currently doesn't work either, and is booked in for today to be vac tested and filled with leak dye if it passes the test.  I doubt it'll even pass the vac test if I'm honest though.

It's a 5 year old, 43k car...  

[Liam40]

18 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

Well I have to say I LOVE my Mk3.  Coming from a 1.5 which had really seen better days, this thing is a breeze!  Granted I've not yet had any unfortunate horrors (touch wood).  I personally love the front end - prefer it to the 3.5 actually, but I've added DRLs and LED indicators to mine which make a big difference.

Good to hear you love your mk3! 

Just out of interest, is it easy to fit DRL’s and LED indicators to a mk3?

Liam.

[zain611]

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Just to add to my mk3 issues, my audio is now playing up too, I've been driving it 4 days and had as many issues so far lol...   

Centre screen blanked out for a few minutes on the way out but I thought nothing of it.  On the return trip all audio buttons stopped working (except the volume dial oddly!) including steering wheel buttons for the entire 20 minute trip...

AC currently doesn't work either, and is booked in for today to be vac tested and filled with leak dye if it passes the test.  I doubt it'll even pass the vac test if I'm honest though.

It's a 5 year old, 43k car...  

Hopefully it isn't a big or expensive problem. Have you got it serviced? Can't trust the previous owner if they kept up with them. I've spent £280 on getting the injectors reconditioned as it would idle lumpy and smoke when left for over 2 hours. Problem when you get a new car is you don't know how its been treated in the past. It'll take about a few months till you get comfortable with it. 

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, zain611 said:

Hopefully it isn't a big or expensive problem. Have you got it serviced? Can't trust the previous owner if they kept up with them. I've spent £280 on getting the injectors reconditioned as it would idle lumpy and smoke when left for over 2 hours. Problem when you get a new car is you don't know how its been treated in the past. It'll take about a few months till you get comfortable with it. 

Yeah, first thing I did was give it a full service...after fixing the boot leak anyway lol.  I'd budgeted for those though, and a few odds like Wiper Blades etc.  Hadn't budgeted for potentially expensive things like engine, AC and audio issues on a relatively new car.  I've tried to have the service history confirmed and get details of what was done at each service as it's meant to be Full Ford (stamped book) but the dealers aren't willing to help at all and Ford customer relations basically told me to stop wasting their time.  There's a mileage discrepancy on the MOT which I wanted to cross reference against services etc as well, testers get MOT mileages wrong quite often so its not unusual but I want to prove it ideally.    Can't even get the original owners details through DVSA any more as they stopped that in Oct last year.  So it seems impossible to trace owners, mileage or service history...  Makes it nice and easy for people to clock cars, forge history and sell shitters with no repercussions...  

Anything with AC will be expensive if a regas doesn't sort it, looking at around £90 for a new condenser rad if that's broken (giving Ford the benefit of the doubt that a stone may have caused it rather than poor build quality), plus another regas at ~£40.  PCM update is probably around £80 (waiting to hear back from them atm) with no guarantee of improvement.  Not sure how much a new/used audio panel or unit would cost if either of those needs replacing.  I'd expect it on a 10 year old/100k car, but not one with half that.

[Phil21185]

3 hours ago, Liam40 said:

Good to hear you love your mk3! 

Just out of interest, is it easy to fit DRL’s and LED indicators to a mk3?

Liam.

Check my build thread   Just click the pic in my sig!

All very easy to do, if you're not confident with soldering, you can use scotch locks (which arguably are more convenient in both projects than soldering anyway!)

[Liam40]

On 05/02/2018 at 8:11 AM, TomsFocus said:

Just to add to my mk3 issues, my audio is now playing up too, I've been driving it 4 days and had as many issues so far lol...   

Centre screen blanked out for a few minutes on the way out but I thought nothing of it.  On the return trip all audio buttons stopped working (except the volume dial oddly!) including steering wheel buttons for the entire 20 minute trip...

AC currently doesn't work either, and is booked in for today to be vac tested and filled with leak dye if it passes the test.  I doubt it'll even pass the vac test if I'm honest though.

It's a 5 year old, 43k car...  

Hi Tom,

Sorry to hear about all the problems your having with your mk3. I hope you get them all sorted and fixed very soon and it’s not too expensive for you.!

In your opinion, giving that my mk1.5 is only worth around £1000 or less, is it feasible/worth getting my cars hydrulic power steering converted to electric power steering?

Liam.

 

[TomsFocus]

5 minutes ago, Liam40 said:

Hi Tom,

Sorry to hear about all the problems your having with your mk3. I hope you get them all sorted and fixed very soon and it’s not too expensive for you.!

In your opinion, giving that my mk1.5 is only worth around £1000 or less, is it feasible/worth getting my cars hydrulic power steering converted to electric power steering?

Liam.

 

Only you can say if it's worth it really, if the car has any sentimental attachment or recently had a lot of work done for example.  But personally I'd say it's not worth it, and would rather put the money towards buying a newer car with lighter steering as standard.  

[Liam40]

23 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

Check my build thread   Just click the pic in my sig!

All very easy to do, if you're not confident with soldering, you can use scotch locks (which arguably are more convenient in both projects than soldering anyway!)

Hi Phil,

Thank you for the advice, I’ll look at you build thread to see what you’ve done.

Liam.

[Liam40]

On 04/02/2018 at 12:17 PM, TomsFocus said:

I waited for the 1st of Feb so as not to lose out on part of a months tax out of habit...  But the tax on the mk3 1.6TDCi is only £20 for the year...   

Yes the DPF is the diesel particulate filter.  Unless you're doing motorway trips, there isn't really a way to own a modern diesel and not worry about them blocking.  The newer ones are coated so the whole inside of the DPF should be at the same high efficiency level for burning off any soot.  With the additive system, you were basically just throwing some additive into the fuel, pushing it through the engine and hoping there was enough of it and that it ended up in roughly the right place time it got to the DPF...  It never did really work efficiently and the additive itself also created ash which blocks the DPF lol.

Realistically, I don't know that the cDPF will work with my driving yet...  I won't know for another month at least which is a bit of a worry.   I drive on 70mph roads for around 3 days a week, but only for about 10 miles at a time.  And do short and/or town journeys roughly 3 times a week as well.  

If it doesn't work out, I'll have to sell the car and buy some sort of petrol.  But as I can't afford to buy an ecoboost/TSi, I'd have to buy a 'conventional' petrol, reduce my mileage by half to keep fuel costs the same, and pay an extra £150 or so in tax.  It's really not an ideal situation, but there are external factors that forced the change as well.  I was in exactly the same position when I bought the Mk2 back in 2014, couldn't afford petrol running costs so had to hope the DPF would be ok...which it wasn't.

I'm also having some engine issues with the mk3 at the moment.  It's fine on the move, but it's very jumpy and jerky slow speed traffic, car parks, junctions, roundabouts, etc which is not only making me look a bit of an idiot, it doesn't feel safe either.  I thought it was just my clutch control with a new-to-me car but it's not getting better with practice, I've also given it a blast on the motorway in case the DPF needed a clearout as I don't know how the previous owners drove it but again no improvement.  I've got decent diagnostic equipment which shows no faults either.  I've enquired at Ford about an engine ECU update which could cure it, just waiting to hear how much the update would cost.

In summary...unless you're on the motorway every day, I really wouldn't bother with the hassle of a modern diesel.

Hi Tom,

Thank you for clarifying what the DPF is!

With the type of driving I do, it really isn’t feasible for me to get a Diesel. So I think I’ll stick to a Petrol engine. Thank you for the advice on this.

Liam.

[Liam40]

20 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Only you can say if it's worth it really, if the car has any sentimental attachment or recently had a lot of work done for example.  But personally I'd say it's not worth it, and would rather put the money towards buying a newer car with lighter steering as standard.  

Hi Tom,

There is a sentimental attachment to the car, she’s been so good to me (touch wood) and I’ve loved driving her but, circumstances change due to health problems so I’m needing a more updated car with as you say lighter steering as standard. 

I don’t think I’d want to pay out to have it done because, it would not only cost a lot of money for parts but also on labour too. Also, I think  it wouldn’t increase the value of my car either. It would also be nice to put the money I would spend on a newer car.

Thank you for the advice on what you would do, I had a good idea what I wanted to do, but it’s always nice to get someone else’s opinion on something.!

Liam.

[Ryan_Tango]

On 05/02/2018 at 11:43 AM, TomsFocus said:

Yeah, first thing I did was give it a full service...after fixing the boot leak anyway lol.  I'd budgeted for those though, and a few odds like wiper blades etc.  Hadn't budgeted for potentially expensive things like engine, AC and audio issues on a relatively new car.  I've tried to have the service history confirmed and get details of what was done at each service as it's meant to be Full Ford (stamped book) but the dealers aren't willing to help at all and Ford customer relations basically told me to stop wasting their time.  There's a mileage discrepancy on the MOT which I wanted to cross reference against services etc as well, testers get MOT mileages wrong quite often so its not unusual but I want to prove it ideally.    Can't even get the original owners details through DVSA any more as they stopped that in Oct last year.  So it seems impossible to trace owners, mileage or service history...  Makes it nice and easy for people to clock cars, forge history and sell shitters with no repercussions...  

Anything with AC will be expensive if a regas doesn't sort it, looking at around £90 for a new condenser rad if that's broken (giving Ford the benefit of the doubt that a stone may have caused it rather than poor build quality), plus another regas at ~£40.  PCM update is probably around £80 (waiting to hear back from them atm) with no guarantee of improvement.  Not sure how much a new/used audio panel or unit would cost if either of those needs replacing.  I'd expect it on a 10 year old/100k car, but not one with half that.

My AC only works for a few weeks after a regas can't be bothered to get it fixed due to it likely being stupid expensive to get fixed, I would do it my self but that's something for another day. As for the jumpy driving it takes time but you'll get the hang of it, don't worry about your DPF I'm on 65k now and it's only 30% full when it gets to 50% it does a regen and goes back to 30% again, some months I do very short journeys and others longer journeys, but I give it the boot quite often.

[TomsFocus]

11 hours ago, Ryan_Tango said:

My AC only works for a few weeks after a regas can't be bothered to get it fixed due to it likely being stupid expensive to get fixed, I would do it my self but that's something for another day. As for the jumpy driving it takes time but you'll get the hang of it, don't worry about your DPF I'm on 65k now and it's only 30% full when it gets to 50% it does a regen and goes back to 30% again, some months I do very short journeys and others longer journeys, but I give it the boot quite often.

The jumpyness isn't my clutch control unfortunately.  Even with the clutch fully up in 1st and 2nd it jerks along rather than rolling smoothly when the engines still cold, seems better warm bit still not perfect.  Had to do an hour of stop start rush hour traffic this morning and it was awful tbh.  The PCM update will cost will cost just over £100 so I'll probably try that.

Maybe the AC faults on these are more common than I thought.  If i can't find the leak, I might replace the condenser in spring and hope for the best, don't need ac atm though.