Losing Coolant - 2014 Mk3 1.6tdci

[Albert27]

Noticed the coolant was low after a cambelt & waterpump change two months ago so topped it up.  Checked again today and it was below minimum. Probably lost half a litre in two months.  I'm wondering if the water pump is possibly leaking but that could just be a co incidence as the car has only been owned by us for just over two months and could have been leaking before.  Where else should i look first for signs of leaks before taking it back to the garage?  Any common places on these? 

2014 Mk3 1.6 tdci.

Thanks in advance!

[Typhoonf2]

hi albert. ive got same problem with my 63 reg 1.6 tdci. my crankshaft pulley went in august last year so to replace it the cambelt had to come off. so they put a new cambelt on and done the water pump aswell as it was part of the cambelt kit plus they also filled it up with new antifreeze. i had to top the coolant up after a day or two once it bled itself and then sort of forgot about it until i needed to fill up washer bottle. my coolant had also dropped to below the min mark so topped up again and mine keeps dropping slowly over about 6 weeks until i top it up again. theres no signs of leakage around the engine and nothing on the floor when its been standing so like yourself im not exactly sure where its going.

[Albert27]

38 minutes ago, Typhoonf2 said:

hi albert. ive got same problem with my 63 reg 1.6 tdci. my crankshaft pulley went in august last year so to replace it the cambelt had to come off. so they put a new cambelt on and done the water pump aswell as it was part of the cambelt kit plus they also filled it up with new antifreeze. i had to top the coolant up after a day or two once it bled itself and then sort of forgot about it until i needed to fill up washer bottle. my coolant had also dropped to below the min mark so topped up again and mine keeps dropping slowly over about 6 weeks until i top it up again. theres no signs of leakage around the engine and nothing on the floor when its been standing so like yourself im not exactly sure where its going.

Nice to know I'm not alone.  Funnily enough, I too was topping up the washer bottle when i noticed! Could this drop just be normal on these engines? I have no idea, doesn't sound normal to be dropping below min.  Have you/garage checked the water pump for leaks?

[Typhoonf2]

hi albert. maybe there is still a bit of air in the system? but i do know they removed the coolant reservoir when they did mine so maybe i need to look around that area or maybe the coolant cap itself. when they did my waterpump they let it run for half an hour then left it over night and they said there was no signs of any leakage the following morning so thats why i was a bit unsure of why it dropped down. thinking about it now ive had the car 4 years and i think i had only topped the coolant up twice before i had it fixed and that was just a little sip to take it between min and max.

[Albert27]

14 minutes ago, Typhoonf2 said:

hi albert. maybe there is still a bit of air in the system? but i do know they removed the coolant reservoir when they did mine so maybe i need to look around that area or maybe the coolant cap itself. when they did my waterpump they let it run for half an hour then left it over night and they said there was no signs of any leakage the following morning so thats why i was a bit unsure of why it dropped down. thinking about it now ive had the car 4 years and i think i had only topped the coolant up twice before i had it fixed and that was just a little sip to take it between min and max.

Probably not normal then.  I had no idea air could cause a problem in the cooling system.  Would air cause the coolant level to drop and why?  And how do you check for air in the system?

[mjt]

In some systems if the high points are not provided with bleed screws air can get trapped and cause airlocks. Sometimes it's possible for the water pump to generate enough flow to dislodge the air and vent it out into the reservoir, hence the coolant level drops. Where this doesn't happen a system may need to be vacuum-filled* to overcome this but I don't know if any models of Focus come into this category.

* Vacuum-filling involves pumping the air out of the system then allowing coolant to be sucked** in.

** Of course it's really atmospheric pressure pushing the coolant in

[Albert27]

2 hours ago, mjt said:

In some systems if the high points are not provided with bleed screws air can get trapped and cause airlocks. Sometimes it's possible for the water pump to generate enough flow to dislodge the air and vent it out into the reservoir, hence the coolant level drops. Where this doesn't happen a system may need to be vacuum-filled* to overcome this but I don't know if any models of Focus come into this category.

* Vacuum-filling involves pumping the air out of the system then allowing coolant to be sucked** in.

** Of course it's really atmospheric pressure pushing the coolant in

I guess i just need to keep an eye on it for now and see what happens.  If, as you say, it's dropped because the water pump has pushed the air out, then it shouldn't drop again.  Thanks Mike

[TomsFocus]

The reservoir is the highest point on these, so in theory they should self bleed by just leaving the cap off with the engine running but it's not 100% fool proof.  Trying to bleed old Peugeots was always a pain as they were filled through the fairly low rad cap (no separate reservoir) and had to try and push the coolant upwards to the heater hose bleed point lol.  Caused many blown headgaskets as indy  garages didn't know how to bleed them properly!

If the reservoir level drops much below minimum while driving, air could then be sucked into the system so you may need to bleed it again, rather than just topping it up, otherwise that air may just keep getting pushed around the system.  The rad cap will allow air out when the coolant is pressurised and expands, and let air back in as the coolant cools and contracts, however that air obviously needs to be at the top of the res to be vented, not stuck in the pipes.  I'd just keep an eye on it for now as you suggest.  

[Albert27]

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The reservoir is the highest point on these, so in theory they should self bleed by just leaving the cap off with the engine running but it's not 100% fool proof.  Trying to bleed old Peugeots was always a pain as they were filled through the fairly low rad cap (no separate reservoir) and had to try and push the coolant upwards to the heater hose bleed point lol.  Caused many blown headgaskets as indy  garages didn't know how to bleed them properly!

If the reservoir level drops much below minimum while driving, air could then be sucked into the system so you may need to bleed it again, rather than just topping it up, otherwise that air may just keep getting pushed around the system.  The rad cap will allow air out when the coolant is pressurised and expands, and let air back in as the coolant cools and contracts, however that air obviously needs to be at the top of the res to be vented, not stuck in the pipes.  I'd just keep an eye on it for now as you suggest.  

I will keep a close eye on it.  So to bleed, i literally just take the cap off and start the engine?  How long should i run the engine for and will there be any signs that air is trapped i.e bubbles or something?

[andypsp]

1 hour ago, Albert27 said:

I will keep a close eye on it.  So to bleed, i literally just take the cap off and start the engine?  How long should i run the engine for and will there be any signs that air is trapped i.e bubbles or something?

i used to have them sort of problems on my old ford escort many yrs ago. just let the water warm up (cap off) in the radiator and when the air starts to escape you`ll see the water level drop

[TomsFocus]

Engine needs to be run with heaters on at least until the thermostat opens around 85c, then for a few minutes after that.

Takes ages on a diesel in this weather though.  You can take it for a short drive with the cap off to warm it up quicker but keep an eye on the temp gauge and take some coolant with you to top up if necessary.  The main thing is not to let the level drop below minimum.

As above, if any air leaves then the level will drop...but without the pressure from the rad cap the level may rise higher than normal anyway.  There isn't really a sure fire way to tell all the air is out but if the level is steady, stat is open ,temp is solid on the guage and heaters are hot it'll usually be fine.

There will often be bubbles in the header tank with the coolant circulating but that's not a problem, doesn't indicate trapped air.

[Albert27]

On 18/02/2018 at 7:51 PM, TomsFocus said:

Engine needs to be run with heaters on at least until the thermostat opens around 85c, then for a few minutes after that.

Takes ages on a diesel in this weather though.  You can take it for a short drive with the cap off to warm it up quicker but keep an eye on the temp gauge and take some coolant with you to top up if necessary.  The main thing is not to let the level drop below minimum.

As above, if any air leaves then the level will drop...but without the pressure from the rad cap the level may rise higher than normal anyway.  There isn't really a sure fire way to tell all the air is out but if the level is steady, stat is open ,temp is solid on the guage and heaters are hot it'll usually be fine.

There will often be bubbles in the header tank with the coolant circulating but that's not a problem, doesn't indicate trapped air.

So today I ran the car with the cap off,  heaters on full, and car at idle for 25 minutes, engine temp was not rising at all.  So i left the cap off and took it for a drive.  Pretty quickly the car reached dead on middle of gauge (85?), but as soon as i eased off to drive down a country lane it would dive again and rise with acceleration etc.  On returning, no drop in coolant level.  

I know very little about engine cooling etc.  So should the car temperature react like that and why?  Is it because it wasn't pressurised and i was driving with the  rad cap off?  

[TomsFocus]

What's the weather like there?  Its freezing here so not a good day to get any heat from a diesel engine, better to wait for a warm day.  Temp will fluctuate like that with acceleration and light cruising when the outside temp is cold as a diesel engine just doesn't produce enough heat like a petrol engine does.  The cap pressure does help hold the heat but is mainly to raise the boiling point of coolant.

The gauge on these isn't live so you can't go by that for temp.  Either use some sort of diagnostics to read from the temp sensor or just feel the radiator top hose.  It'll stay fairly cool with the stat closed and hot when it opens.

 

[Albert27]

17 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

What's the weather like there?  Its freezing here so not a good day to get any heat from a diesel engine, better to wait for a warm day.  Temp will fluctuate like that with acceleration and light cruising when the outside temp is cold as a diesel engine just doesn't produce enough heat like a petrol engine does.  The cap pressure does help hold the heat but is mainly to raise the boiling point of coolant.

The gauge on these isn't live so you can't go by that for temp.  Either use some sort of diagnostics to read from the temp sensor or just feel the radiator top hose.  It'll stay fairly cool with the stat closed and hot when it opens.

 

Same here mate with a bit of snow so I will chose another day.  I topped up the reservoir but tbh there wasn't a noticeable loss in coolant and it's been a month so maybe the air has found it's way out somehow. Time will tell.... 

[Albert27]

Just wanted to update the thread to say that the cap off trick seems to have worked.  Level has stayed consistent now for over a month.  Thanks for the advice. 

[andypsp]

2 hours ago, Albert27 said:

Just wanted to update the thread to say that the cap off trick seems to have worked.  Level has stayed consistent now for over a month.  Thanks for the advice. 

thats great to hear you can put the cap back on now then if you haven`t done so 

[Floodbond]

Coolant leaking, changed thermostat, waterpump and belt, reservoir bottle and cap.still losing water after days of searching found a pin hole at rear of engine on hose where cables covered in heat protection have rubbed through the hose causing a pin hole in hose.

Look at photo and you can see the cables resting on the hose causing the problem.

Not an easy change but this was the cause

 

[R04DRUNNER]

I've recently had a lot of coolant seemingly vanish with no obvious leaks. I can't remember why exactly I was looking under the bonnet this particular weekend but when I was I noticed the coolant was a centimetre or so below the min mark. I didn't have any coolant on hand so had to drive the car (2015 1.6 diesel Focus) to get some on the Monday. By the time I had complete the trip to get a bottle (40-45 mile round trip with a stop long enough for the engine to completely cool), the level had fallen to the point of it being completely empty, (less than a centimetre in the tank). I refilled, 50/50 mix of Xstream G30 concentrated antifreeze (all I could get a hold of) and deionised water, and that seemed to be good for the best part of the week or so with maybe a top up of 200ml or so, It took a litre at the start of that week (500ml of each).

It went in for a service at the end of that week and apart from that top up it seemed to be fine. They didn't find any leaks. At nearly bang on 40'000 miles on the clock it had all the filters changed including fuel and it was 6'000 miles after the previous service although the poor car has only had 3 services previously to that under my ownership (from about 5'000 miles) with this latest at 40'000 miles being the 4th. First with me was at the small dealership I got the car from, the second was at a Ford dealership, the third and forth at a separate garage due to a customer service issue at Ford but only the third service (first with this second last garage) that they used OEM parts on request. Although I requested them on the last service the new guy I was speaking to said they couldn't do that, saying that the parts they use would be just as good but simply won't have Ford branding on them. I accepted, reluctantly, but with some other stuff coming into the news at that point I just wanted it done. Always wanted to service the car myself but never trusted myself with my limited knowledge.

Anyway, the level seamed fine since, but of course, when I didn't check the level the day before yesterday, it emptied itself again. Finished off the 1 litre bottle of Xstream G30 getting the level up to the minimum again there earlier this evening before a short journey but am wondering what the issue might be. It's cold weather here so can't tell if it's burning off due to water vapour out of the exhaust, but the level doesn't seem to be changing when left sitting for hours, (levels always checked when cold). The tank itself seems to be holding pressure OK as you can hear the pressure releasing when releasing the cap (when cold for several hours overnight), so I assume it's not a dodgy seal on the cap that it's boiling off through.

I've yet to check the oil fill cap for white scum.

I'm wondering if anyone could tell me what hoses I should also check if possible (I can't get the car in the air to get a proper look underneath). Please bear with me though as I'm not knowledgeable on the mechanics of the car despite owning the car for the best part of 4 years (quite embarrassing when I claim to be a car enthusiast).

[nicam49]

Buy yourself a sniffer test kit, this will detect exhaust gasses in the coolant, and will tell  you if you've got a leaking CHG, (cylinder head gasket) you don't say what engine you've got, but the test is not as positive on a diesel as on a petrol engine due to  the different fuel (apparently). The test kit itself is £20 ish, but most garages should have one anyway. Look on youtube for how to use one. 

[isetta]

My 1.6tdci leaked slightly from bottom of thermostat cover. Took a long time to find. I only found it because I put radweld In and then when it leaked again it left a telltale red stain from the red radweld

[HUTCH76]

I have a Transit connect, long story had a new water pump installed, soon after found that the header tank was bubbling, changed hoses where i found leek. soon after the head gasket went. New head head gasket done! Soon after the turbo failed and Destroyed the engine. New Engine installed new water pump and new turbo. Ever Since i have had a problem with the engine loosing water and boiling over! I Have replaced the the Radiator new thermostat housing, header tank and cap, had pressure test done. So no leaks, but I'm still loosing water and the water system is still pressurising. i have tried to bleed the air but i still get the same issue. Any help would be appreciated   

[enduroblokekipa]

Hi I have same car with the same problem, have you found solution to it ?

[Daveewers]

Did anyone sort this problem out

[Mikey100]

Hi there, I seem to have a similar issue and wondering if anyone can help - my coolant tank keeps seemingly almost completely emptying, but when you unscrew the cap to top up the tank, the tank hisses and all the coolant bubbles back in from somewhere. Have taken to my local garage and they have said they can’t check any further because when they’ve plugged the car into their computer it’s coming up that there’s an issue with the instrument panel. I’ve got a 2014 1.6 diesel Ford Focus zetec S. Any advice or ideas about what’s going on would be greatly received. Thanks

[terry1606]

Hi Mike I'm having the same issue as you same year and engine as your.

Did you get of the bottom of it?