Battery Drain...

[Phil21185]

Hey all.

Went to start the car today and nada. Dash came on for a second and the radio screen was dim but car wouldn't start.

It had a good motorway run on Friday but not used yesterday.

Checked the battery: 8.8v. Ouch.

Got the battery charged up and started the car. Car started ok but dash didn't work (and also indicators). Went for a drive (before realising the indicators didn't work - good job I know my hand signals!) And nothing.

Found a post somewhere that said check fuses 67 and 69 (I think). Both fuses ok but replugging 67 made the radio come on brighter and replugging 69 sorted the dash. All good.

But why is my battery flat...?

Been fine for months. Recently fitted dash cam and been having trouble with DRLs staying on so unplugged the dash cam to start with and measured the battery. 12.8v, 2 hours later: 12.2v

Unplugged DRLs and about to take another reading.

A few things spring to mind.

1) dash cam or DRLs are causing the drain for some reason.

2) the battery is 4 years old and needs replacing

3) I read somewhere that someone had the same problem and after much time at the garage (under warranty) they found that the sync/Bluetooth module was not allowing the car to sleep. A software update sorted it.

Unless it's 1), I've got a couple of questions.

Is it likely to need a new battery after 4 years?

Or if 3)

Does anyone know how to tell if this is the case as the thread I read didn't say. Also, does anyone know what the latest update for sync 1.1 is and if I can do it myself?

Will edit with voltage in a bit.

Many thanks

Edit: Batt was 12v when checked but realised DRL dimming wire was still connected (my DRLs are lighting up with the car off at the moment which may be related...) Will disconnect in morning and hope car will still start after uni tomorrow!

[Phil21185]

Update.

battery still draining overnight with both DRLs and dash cam completely disconnected.

So either there's something keeping a module awake or the battery is just tired and the winter weather isn't helping.

I've only had the car since May, so first winter together. Thinking about it, the start stop has always been a little finicky so maybe the battery isn't ideal.

Also I notice that the battery doesn't mention silver calcium on what I can see of it but I think 'premium flooded'? Can't remember now so will have to check.

So I guess I need to wait for some less snowy weather, leave the bonnet open for a bit then put a multimeter between the neg terminal and the grounding point to see if there's any current being drawn when the car is supposed to be asleep?

Seem reasonable to anyone?

[Phil21185]

Surprised noone has any ideas...

 

Decided to pull the battery to charge externally and test over time to see if it loses power.  Man was that a sod to get out.  Would have been easier if I could have removed the airbox but it didnt want to budge...

Turns out it has a great big Pb sticker on the side - is this still a Silver Calcium battery?  It does say enhanced flooded though which suggests its suitable..?

[Phil21185]

Well this is turning out to be a very one sided thread lol.

 

battery charged up overnight and charger showed full when battery was reading 13.3v at 8am this morning.  Left the battery disconnected and rechecked voltage at intervals

Checked at 9am - 13.07v

Checked at 10am - 13.05v

Checked just now (about 10.45) - 13.05v

 

This would suggest to me that the battery might be ok.  Unfortunately this means that there is indeed a parasitic drain on the car somewhere....  Anyone have any thoughts or input - it would be welcome!

[Phil21185]

Problem.

I can put a meter in series with the neg side of the battery and measure the current. However if I accidentally break the circuit, when I make it again, the draw jumps to 3A for about 20 secs, then drops to 1.5 for about 20 secs, then gradually drops to 0.35A. it doesn't seem to drop lower after a few minutes but to be honest it's too cold out there to sit and wait with the meter on.

Apart from clipping my terminals on and leaving it, is there any other way of checking for drain?

Also, how long is it before the car should 'sleep' and what current is likely to be drawn when it is?

Does having the key nearby wake it up, or only when a request to unlock it happens?

Thanks

[F0CUE]

Tbh I have read this and no clue how to test it but thought I would reply and not be rude. Is it dying whilst just sitting?

[Phil21185]

Lol thanks Ian!

Yeah if the car isnt used for 24hrs battery will be at 8v the next morning...

The reason I think the car is still 'awake' is because my chinese DRL's, which have always stayed on really dim for a couple of minutes after switching the engine off, were no longer turning off.  When I turned the headlight switch from auto to off, they went off.  Discovered they were getting a feed from the dimming signal wire scotchlocked onto the dipped beam wire.

When I discovered the battery was dying, I thought this might be the cause (as above) but it turns out it is only a symptom.

 

Hang on, does anyone know which module allows power to the headlights?  I wonder if that could be the cause.

Before my last post, I pulled al of the engine bay mini fuses one by one to see if the current dropped but it didnt.  I couldnt pull the relays or box fuses while holding the test leads on so didn;t go any further...

[F0CUE]

Yeh the wire scotchlocked is so the Drl will dim to 50% when the headlights activate. I had to do that when using a drl auto control module that connects to the battery and you also have the option for indicator options like the audi light drl. I wonder if you have that module and it's went faulty? As mines turned off after a minute when the power dropped and worked great until my drl broke :(

[Phil21185]

Thanks but the DRL problem is separate and for the moment not a concern - the dimming circuit has a duff diode in it or the MOSFET has burned and stuck etc etc. A fairly inexpensive replacement module will fix that when the weather warms up!

My main worry at the moment is this battery drain and what is causing it. The DRLs being on are only a symptom I think. Something is allowing power to the headlights (though not enough to light them) when the car is off.

 

[Dee_82]

I assume you got a multi meter? you know your diodes and what not so im guessing you do! :) 

disconnect the battery live

Set your multi meter to measure current, probably something around 100mA to 1A

Make sure your probes are set to Current and COM and connect the multimeter between the battery and the Live (now disconnected) terminal connector.

Now the plan here is to let the car go to sleep, this can take up to half an hour or so but you will need to leave the door open and if you have keyless entry leave the key well away from the car.

Once asleep you will get the current rating, it should be in the tens of mA, the lower the better. if its climbing up to the 100mA or more then you might start to have issues.

Now the fun part. start yanking fuses, one at a time, let it stabilize and check the current drop. eventually you will find whats drawing the current and killing your battery. 

a while back I had the same problem and it turns out that a no longer used BT module was keeping the IC alive at night, unplugged the BT module, IC went to sleep, current rating dropped by 90% :)

 

[Phil21185]

Thanks for that.

I did this with the negative terminal, does it matter?

And by 'leave the door open' do you just mean unlocked?

I'll give this another go tomorrow.

[F0CUE]

I would say closed but unlocked as u don't want the interior lights on. Here is more information/steps to help out

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/car-technology/amp5859/how-to-stop-car-battery-drains/

[Dee_82]

the problem you might have with leaving the door closed is the fuse box, unless your a contortionist getting in the window, down in to the footwell, upside down. might be a challenge! :)

the interior door lights turn off after about 5 min, the rest of the car should follow. you could do it with the doors closed to find a reading for whats going on at night but when testing, its more about the relative current draw, your looking for the big drops. when you find a big drop you can then test it with the door closed to get a true reading. but when hunting for that big drop, just leave the car unlocked and the door open,

Before hunting for the leak, lets find out if you have one. shut the door, leave it for 30 min or so and take the reading, everything should be off, including the IC. that number will tell us if the car has a parasitic leak someplace, step 2, find it.

Ground will work ok and is safer, its not perfect though, the ground could be interfered with where as the positive is a true reflection of whats going on but you run the risk of zapping yourself or shorting things out. Ground should be fine for you.

 

 

[Phil21185]

Thanks for the replies.

The same argument should apply to the boot as well then?

[Dee_82]

do you have fuses in the boot too? if so then yeah, as I said though, we need a baseline to start with so shut the doors and leave to find the true reading

oh, don't try and turn the car over with the meter inline, your multi-meter may go to the place all dead meters go if you do, the fuse might not be enough with 400A passing down its wires to save it

.

 

[Phil21185]

Hmm. After 40mins, draw read between 0.00 and 0.01 on 10amp setting so I guess that means there is no drain after all...

Back to monitoring battery voltage in the mornings I guess...

Could it be that taking the battery out and charging it up overnight has reset whatever module may have been causing the problem?

Or is it just a duff battery after all?

[Dee_82]

17 hours ago, Phil21185 said:

Hmm. After 40mins, draw read between 0.00 and 0.01 on 10amp setting so I guess that means there is no drain after all...

Back to monitoring battery voltage in the mornings I guess...

Could it be that taking the battery out and charging it up overnight has reset whatever module may have been causing the problem?

Or is it just a duff battery after all?

not that it matters but that's the wrong setting, you want it 1A or 100mA setting

10A means the highest reading will be 10A, a value of 1 on this setting will be 1A your 0.01 is 10mA

1A will be your first call. a value of 1 on a 1A scale will be 1A, on this settings your 0.010 is still 10mA

100mA range takes than even further, a value of 1 on this setting is 1mA. but this time because we have moved to a fraction of a unit, your meter would display 10mA

it just means you have more detail 

in any case, 10mA an hour is normal so its not a current draw problem which means that either the battery isn't getting charged fully (alternator / grounding issues) or the battery is nackard. keep in mind that cold weather will significantly reduce the effectiveness of a battery. 

 

Test the alternator first. get the car running, monitor the voltage over the battery, then turn all the lamps on, high beams, fans, you name it. see what happens to the voltage, if it drops and holds significantly to less than 10, its one sign the alternator might not be doing what it should.

You cant determine the state of the battery itself without putting a load on it so take the battery to Halfords or a garage, most will do a free load test to see how good it is. Checking the voltage on the battery will do nothing if there is minimal current capacity inside it which is why volts will drop off the face of the earth when a load is applied to a dud battery

 

 

 

[Phil21185]

6 hours ago, Dee_82 said:

not that it matters but that's the wrong setting, you want it 1A or 100mA setting

10A means the highest reading will be 10A, a value of 1 on this setting will be 1A your 0.01 is 10mA

1A will be your first call. a value of 1 on a 1A scale will be 1A, on this settings your 0.010 is still 10mA

100mA range takes than even further, a value of 1 on this setting is 1mA. but this time because we have moved to a fraction of a unit, your meter would display 10mA

it just means you have more detail 

in any case, 10mA an hour is normal so its not a current draw problem which means that either the battery isn't getting charged fully (alternator / grounding issues) or the battery is nackard. keep in mind that cold weather will significantly reduce the effectiveness of a battery. 

 

Test the alternator first. get the car running, monitor the voltage over the battery, then turn all the lamps on, high beams, fans, you name it. see what happens to the voltage, if it drops and holds significantly to less than 10, its one sign the alternator might not be doing what it should.

You cant determine the state of the battery itself without putting a load on it so take the battery to halfords or a garage, most will do a free load test to see how good it is. Checking the voltage on the battery will do nothing if there is minimal current capacity inside it which is why volts will drop off the face of the earth when a load is applied to a dud battery

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.  Yeah, I understand the scopes of multimeters, but mine (a cheapy) jumps from 10A (which still displays 2dp), to 200ma but through the alternate positive port for the probe which is not protected for currents higher than about 1A.  I was satisfied that the car is not drawing a huge amount in any case.

I accept that my battery 'test' was not perhaps very scientific but something very odd to note is that I have had no problems since disconnecting the battery overnight.  Further than that, my drl problem no longer exists, which is extremely weird.  When fully connected, the drls dim as they should with the dipped beam on.  Previously, if the car was switched off with the headlight switch at either dipped or auto, the drls would stay very dimly lit for a while.

At first, I thought it was the capacitors in the dimming circuit slowly discharging as they would go off.  More recently, the drls have not gone off at all (in fact I've had neighbours let me know they were still on).  Today, I can leave the switch at auto and there is not drl light at all when the car is off...

As I was thinking that the light being on was a symptom of my battery drain, perhaps disconnecting the battery has done something beneficial.  If it has, its the first time ever that I've had a car 'fix itself'...

And finally, start stop is now working a lot better than it ever has....

It could still be a dead batt, you think?  To be honest, I'd almost rather it were a duff battery.  Anyway, I'll be keeping a very close eye.

[Dee_82]

cars are more computer then anything else and the first rule of fixing a computer "Turn it off and on again"  actually that's not strictly speaking true, the first test is normally, "is it plugged in" but anyway. its possible its done something at a software level, the various modules will have RAM and ROM, killing the power clears RAM out which is then reloaded from ROM, that's how it works on computers and I I suppose theres no reason to think a car would be different. 

anyhow, hope that works!

[mjt]

Executable code and static data (look-up tables or maps) would be stored in ROM and working data in RAM. I imagine the ROM, or at least some of it, is flash memory since it can be reprogrammed via the ODB port. I suppose the working data, such as learnt values, can get corrupted and can be reset by removing the power. Re-applying power will then re-boot the executable code which will load default values into the RAM and the learning process re-starts. That's a guess based on working with other microprocessor-based systems, I know nothing about the actual architecture of the processors in modern cars.

[Ned_Mk2_1.8tdci]

Just to add my two cents on batteries. Ford uses silver-calcium batteries for few simple reasons: higher charging voltage, low discharge rate and ability to sustain high under-bonnet temperatures. I assume you have Ca-Ca or silver calcium battery and a standard battery charger (stop charge at 13,8V). From my experience and some research, if you have Ca-Ca or silver calcium battery than external charger must charge the battery up to 15,5 or 16V. Ca-Ca battery is excellent when car need winter CCA, but can't withstand high under-bonnet temperatures.

So if your battery is quickly charged up to 13,8V (matter of up to few hours) and after charge voltage is over 12,9V than you need a battery charger with higher voltage output. With usual caution on electrolyte level in all cells, gassing etc..

[Kit Reynolds]

Our 2011 Focus has shown similar issues with the battery draining and needing a jump start.

I have noticed that every now and then the car clock remains on even hours after locking the car. The Ford dealership upgraded the software which didn't fix it and then replaced the Alternator which seemed to for several years.

Now the issue has returned and have had to jump start twice.

I am going to keep an eye on the clock. I find disconnecting the power clears the issue for a month or so before it comes back. It could well be something to door with the Radio and ICE system as when the issue occurs this freezes and won't turn on although the car will start. It may be now we are in Winter and the battery older the car is more susceptible with this 'intermittent parasitic drain' to draining to the point where it won't start.

We bought the car at 2 years old, it ran fine for a further 2 years, but then the issues started and I noticed the battery has already been replaced by an RAC one. So suspect there were issues from new. The interior light has never worked with the door open so suspect something was done there.

I also found an article on WhatCar  https://www.whatcar.com/news/mystery-fault-causes-battery-to-drain/n2111

Which sounds like it could well have been the same intermittent issue.

Did anyone get any further into the root cause of the issues above?

[KT focus]

Hello there,

I have same issue with my Ford Focus 2012 petrol titanium.

battery is completely flat in the morning, I have to jump start and it works perfectly fine during the day.

the battery is only a year old.

i make sure that all the lights are turned off and all doors are locked.

what is  draining the battery overnight?

 

 

[JB_Zetec_S]

On 1/19/2020 at 8:25 PM, KT focus said:

Hello there,

I have same issue with my Ford Focus 2012 petrol titanium.

battery is completely flat in the morning, I have to jump start and it works perfectly fine during the day.

the battery is only a year old.

i make sure that all the lights are turned off and all doors are locked.

what is  draining the battery overnight?

 

 

I'm trying to find he source of my battery drain at the moment. Thread :

 

Try removing fuse 67 (third down and second from the left in the fuse board under the glove box) and see if that stops your battery draining. It does mean you'll have no radio, bluetooth, or working display. This works for me to stop the battery drain. I'm suspecting my bluetooth module isn't shutting down. I'll update once I get to the bottom of it.

 

[Mondymk4]

Hi I’m getting this, I thought it was the bluetooth but looks like it only happens when it rains hard.