Hi,

My car is a 1.4  manual petrol 2011 Fiesta with 70,000 miles.

I was driving home from work yesterday and was nearly home when I pulled, as I was accelerating and changed from I think 2nd to 3rd gear my car suddenly felt like it was in neutral. No matter how much I revved or which gear I used I just coasted to the side of the road and came to a stop.

I restarted the car and tried 1st gear, and a few others but was unable to find a biting point in any gear and even if I completely lifted my foot off the clutch it wouldn't stall in gear.

I was towed to the independent garage I usually used and they first said it was likely the clutch. I was surprised as my clutch was fine up to now, no slipping etc and I tend to be kind on the clutch with how I drive anyway (got 140,000 miles out of my last Fiesta's original clutch).

I got a call today to say that it wasn't the clutch after all and was the gearbox and it will need to be replaced. I've been quoted £1000 to replace the gearbox with a reconditioned one and have a new clutch fiitted whilst they're doing the gearbox anyway.

What I don't understand is how a gearbox can fail so suddenly without any warning signs at all? No grinding when selecting gear and no slipping of the clutch at all to suddenly having a car that has absolutely no power making it's way from the engine to the front wheels.

Does this look like a gearbox failure based on what happened and can a gearbox fail so suddenly?

Has anyone experienced something similar to this or have any thoughts of how this could have happened? The garage has a reputation for being trustworthy.

Any thoughts will be much appreciated! :)

 

 

 

 

 

The trouble with gearboxes is they're very complicated, much more so than engines, and a normal garage won't be able to repair them so can only offer you a replacement.

I haven't seen the fault you describe before, but with no horrific noises or accidentally mashing it into 1st at 70 I would guess it's just something simple like a selector that's come loose.  Probably a very cheap part but it's getting to it that's the problem.  If you have any local transmission specialists, might be worth asking them if they've seen this fault on this gearbox before.

29 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

The trouble with gearboxes is they're very complicated, much more so than engines, and a normal garage won't be able to repair them so can only offer you a replacement.

I haven't seen the fault you describe before, but with no horrific noises or accidentally mashing it into 1st at 70 I would guess it's just something simple like a selector that's come loose.  Probably a very cheap part but it's getting to it that's the problem.  If you have any local transmission specialists, might be worth asking them if they've seen this fault on this gearbox before.

complicated??? not a normal ford manual box. but alot of garages wont touch them, a ford garage i worked for didnt , sent them off for repair regardless of my prevoius experience working at a suzuki garage where we did everything, transverse manual box, normal gearbox strips/rebuilds , 4wd tranferbox strips/rebuilds and front/rear axle strips /rebuilds. did complete engine rebuilds also. 

Well they've left it taken apart ready for the new(ish) gearbox to go in so not much I can do in terms of getting a second opinion.

I was accelerating quite hard when it happened but not redlining or anything so I can't imagine this to be a factor as to the cause of the problem.

I'll be honest I don't know much about gearboxes, I'm going do a bit of reading some time tomorrow but I'm hoping to understand what would have to be damaged for the gearbox to fail suddenly and then act as if it's completely in neutral regardless of what gear I'm in.

How van a gearbox suddenly fail? Erm, a component inside suddenly breaks, perhaps?

Ask them for the old box back and pull it apart yourself. Ask them for the clutch components back too lol.

i guess you won’t get the gearbox back though as they will probably need to send that back to who ever supplied the recon box. 

I presume the old box had some oil in it?

13 hours ago, iantt said:

complicated??? not a normal ford manual box. but alot of garages wont touch them, a ford garage i worked for didnt , sent them off for repair regardless of my prevoius experience working at a suzuki garage where we did everything, transverse manual box, normal gearbox strips/rebuilds , 4wd tranferbox strips/rebuilds and front/rear axle strips /rebuilds. did complete engine rebuilds also. 

Most garages won't even weld, let alone strip a gearbox lol!  Depends on your experience I guess.  I've rebuilt a couple of engines but stripped down a box and had no chance of getting it back together successfully.  Fortunately used boxes only cost £50 for that car at the time so I just replaced it and scrapped the pile of parts I had from the old one.  

14 hours ago, Jethro_Tull said:

How van a gearbox suddenly fail? Erm, a component inside suddenly breaks, perhaps?

Would there not be any warning signs before something like this happened though? It felt 100% fine before it failed.

 

4 hours ago, Jethro_Tull said:

I presume the old box had some oil in it?

The car is fully serviced by Ford. According to the service schedule the transmission gets checked for damage/leaks etc but not replaced.

 

The car is obviously outside the manufacturers warranty but anyone know if Ford would cover some of the cost if a Ford garage were to diagnose and fix it, given that it has a full Ford service history? I rang the Ford garage I have it serviced the other day and they just quoted me £2400 for a new gearbox.

17 minutes ago, onlyoneunited said:

The car is obviously outside the manufacturers warranty but anyone know if Ford would cover some of the cost if a Ford garage were to diagnose and fix it, given that it has a full Ford service history? I rang the Ford garage I have it serviced the other day and they just quoted me £2400 for a new gearbox.

You have no way of proving you haven't "crunched" the gears or driven with your hand resting on the gearstick, I had the gearbox fail in a Mk 6 Fiesta, thinking back I had heard a "whine" the day or so before but apart from that it just stopped working as I was driving down the road.

And if you ask then to investigate they will charge you for it

17 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

I would guess it's just something simple like a selector that's come loose.  Probably a very cheap part but it's getting to it that's the problem.  

 

They had an Audi TT on "Wheeler Dealers" that had lost 1st & 2nd. Turned out to be a broken rivet on a selector fork which they replaced with a 50p nylock nut & bolt. As you say, problem is getting to it!

I once ‘wrung’ a gearbox mainshaft in two on a rear wheel drive Vauxhall 😁 mind you I used to wheelspin it then one day with 4 passengers pulling away from the kerb it just went BANG in a cloud of smoke! When we stripped the box down the mainshaft looked just like a stick of soft rock that had been twisted until it broke into two pieces. (The Vauxhall garage had never seen that before - I was dead chuffed 👍🏼)

15 minutes ago, Russ said:

I once ‘wrung’ a gearbox mainshaft in two on a rear wheel drive Vauxhall 😁 mind you I used to wheelspin it then one day with 4 passengers pulling away from the kerb it just went BANG in a cloud of smoke! When we stripped the box down the mainshaft looked just like a stick of soft rock that had been twisted until it broke into two pieces. (The Vauxhall garage had never seen that before - I was dead chuffed 👍🏼)

I'd say my driving style is relatively sympathetic on my car. Though on the weekend I was driving with 3 other guys for about 2 hours and revved it a fair bit, though I never red-line the car.

£1000 just seems like a lot to spend out of nowhere on repairing a fiesta that's been well maintained.

It's been completely reliable up until now and I love the way it drives and handles so and I was hoping to keep the car for another 3 years at least- but now I'm not so sure.

Given that the car will have a new clutch, new gearbox, and I'm going to put new disks and pads on it next month I'm tempted to keep it for as long as I can.

That said, I'll probably replace the cam belt next year at 80,000 miles so it seems like I've  owned this car at an expensive time on it's life!

 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, onlyoneunited said:

Would there not be any warning signs before something like this happened though? It felt 100% fine before it failed.

 

The car is fully serviced by Ford. According to the service schedule the transmission gets checked for damage/leaks etc but not replaced.

 

The car is obviously outside the manufacturers warranty but anyone know if Ford would cover some of the cost if a Ford garage were to diagnose and fix it, given that it has a full Ford service history? I rang the Ford garage I have it serviced the other day and they just quoted me £2400 for a new gearbox.

That doesn't answer the question.

 

Ford will tell you to jog on.  You're long since past even the remotest thought of a goodwill contribution.

14 hours ago, Jethro_Tull said:

I presume the old box had some oil in it?

how would I have checked this other than draining the oil?  If there wasn't any oil surely I would have noticed this during gear changes...?

You doth presume too much.

If a driveshaft seal goes it can dump the oil in minutes.  Very fortunately it doesn't happen often.

Well I got the car back earlier and at least it drives now!

The clutch pedal feels very light after having the new clutch fitted and the biting point is lower, I'm assuming this is normal?

The gearbox feels pretty stiff and struggled a bit getting into 3rd gear a couple of times on the way home, I have no idea if this is normal....

 

 

The clutch height will settle down pretty quickly. Stiff gearbox, not so sure, sounds like old oil. Does it get easier after driving for a little while?

3 hours ago, sioneon said:

The clutch height will settle down pretty quickly. Stiff gearbox, not so sure, sounds like old oil. Does it get easier after driving for a little while?

I've only driven it for about 10 miles so far but before the gearbox got changed it was very smooth and precise, now feels a lot worse!

Would the oil not have been replaced when the new  (recon)gearbox was put in?

8 hours ago, onlyoneunited said:

I've only driven it for about 10 miles so far but before the gearbox got changed it was very smooth and precise, now feels a lot worse!

Would the oil not have been replaced when the new  (recon)gearbox was put in?

It should have been

The driveshafts aren't bolted on these, so most of the oil falls out of the box when it's removed even if you don't drain it - meaning they should have refilled it yes.  But may not have put enough in.

Depending on how much of the gearbox has been replaced, it might just need to be run in a bit to loosen up.  Or it might be that they've charged you for a recon but just fitted a used box with a worn 3rd synchro...  

 

 

back to how it failed - a gearbox in a front wheel drive car like this is not just a gearbox. It is a gearbox and differential all built into one casing. it could be that the differential had failed. If all gears appeared not to work but the gearlever movement felt normal, it may well have been the differential that failed.  Doesn't make a whole lot of difference as all in the same unit combined together. 

The gearstick linkage connector snapped when you were midway between 3rd and 4th leaving the car in neutral -  just a guess!

Probably got ripped off to the tune of £950 - Trust no garages is my motto!

 

13 hours ago, isetta said:

back to how it failed - a gearbox in a front wheel drive car like this is not just a gearbox. It is a gearbox and differential all built into one casing. it could be that the differential had failed. If all gears appeared not to work but the gearlever movement felt normal, it may well have been the differential that failed.  Doesn't make a whole lot of difference as all in the same unit combined together. 

This is how the garage described what had happened to me. The differential was knackered apparently,  I'm just surprised at how suddenly it failed though. Apparently most garages dont repair gearboxes these days so they just swap another one in...Just not sure I like the idea of having a gearbox in my car that could have done a lot more miles than my one even if it has been 'reconditioned '!

Just trying to think what the lesson to be learnt from all this is....i suppose car components fail regardless of how well you maintain your car or carefully you drive.

The thing is this - when anyone garages etc give you a cost of £1000 that just makes me laugh - now if they had given you a bill of £975.53 that sounds feasible but when mr con man picks a nice round figure out of the air thats not professional nor does it reflect well on the person who is giving you the quote - "yeah mate a nice round grand".

Nah not having it!

I have to admit the only work ive ever done on gearboxes was my Dutton Phaeton s3 kit car - i could get the engine and gearbox out in my sleep 15 mins tops with my dads help and thatS the only time i ever worked on a gearbox 1600xflow engines are lovely so simple no electronics just a big metal lump so i am no expert on gearboxes but i know for fact i could get a Fiesta gearbox for £250 and have my mate John in East Kilbride fit it for max £300 and he is very expensive but is probably the only Garage i have found in 40 years that does a proper job for the money - Barrack street up in the Barras would probably charge £200 to fit so max £450 - £1000 is mad dude, did you not google first - doesnt matter what i buy or repair these days i always use google and youtube etc for hints and tips - no one is an expert there are so many things to learn but the one thing I have learned over 40 years car mechanics - I started with my dad removing a wheel when I wur 7 years old lol and thats 99% OF GARAGES AND MOST TRADESMAN SADLY ARE A COMPLETE RIPOFF IN THIS COUNTRY!!!

I feel for ya dude its maddening to know they ripped you off after the fact - THE LESSON HAS BEEN LEARNED I THINK - TRUST-NO1.