Some help removing key ignition lock assembly Mk2

[Fordster1]

I'm in the process of swapping in a 2nd hand Ecu kit to my Focus. I'm swapping the Ecu, Instrument cluster and Key ignition lock assembly and possibly the BCM too. I have the IC removed and am now trying to remove the ignition lock assembly unit. 

I have all the connectors disconnected and the 2 torx screws removed. However, they're are 2 what i believe are "security" bolts that need to be removed, what is the best way to go about removing these? I assume drilling them, but wheres the best place to drill them or what is the best way to drill them? Can anyone with experience of drilling / removing these please share the best method. That is assuming I do drill them or if there's another trick please enlighten me. I'm trying to get this done today so any help appreciated.

[dezwez]

I got mine out a few years back  by hitting one  side around with a small centre punch and hammer till it unscrews hope this helps

[iantt]

or easier if you still have key for old ign lock, just remove the barrel. ign to acccesory position and put a small punch or simular into a small hole in steering lock to release the button inside. pull barrel and key out. 

[Fordster1]

I got the 2 security botls out, used center punch and a chisel as suggested. Cheers for the tips.

But to actually remove the entire ignition lock assembly (not just the little barrel piece the key slots into) do I need to remove the steering wheel and air bag? I have all the bolts out but the entire lock assembly doesn't want to drop down, it looks like i need to slide it up the steering wheel meaning removing thewheel and airbag. Is this correct or is there a way to drop the lock unit out of the steering column without removing the steering wheel / airbag??

[Stoney871]

Yep, wheel needs to come off, the lock module is held on with a metal dovetail.

 

Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)

 

 

 

 

[Stoney871]

As per pic-

Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)

[Stoney871]

As a correction to my previous post-

I believe that what is holding the lock unit in place is the clock spring unit for the airbag and control stalks so they need to come off to allow access,

The bolts holding the mechanism in place are indeed security bolts which need drilling out and replacing.

Do you really need to remove the whole steering lock mechanism?

The transponder ring doesn't need swapping as all the immobiliser system needs is a matched ECU, Transponder chip and cluster.

The original key blade will work ok, just swop the blade head to the replacement key body.

Just in case you need to go more in-depth I have copied all relevant info from my PDF Haynes book into a PDF for you-

Steering Column & Airbag Info PDF.pdf

[Fordster1]

 

First of all, I'll just say major Thanks to you "Stoney871" !! That's some amount of effort you went to with pics and the Pdf of the steering / airbag system. Really appreciate that, fair play to you. :)) I am reading the Pdf out of interest now even though in light off your info I may not need to go that far now.

I think I completely misunderstood the lock terminology and subsequently what exactly I had to do regarding the lock assembly. The above pic is the Lock assembly as I received it complete with its 2 keys from the breakers. As I bought an Ecu kit and that full lock assembly came with it like that, I just assumed I had to replace the full lock assembly. Also, I just assumed when folks said the "lock barrel" in this and in my other thread, I assumed they were referring to the complete lock assembly as pictured above.

But apparently I only need to replace the "lock barrel", as in the little cylinder the key goes into only and therefore no need to remove or swap the complete lock assembly with the complete assembly in my picture? Opps, if that's the case I feel a bit embarrassed lol :) 

When you say the immobiliser only needs a matched Ecu / Cluster and transponder chip, is the transponder chip you refer to the chip within the key?

The "transponder ring" just so we're clear and talking about the same piece, this is the little black plastic ring clipped on around the lock where the key goes in, yeah. And if keeping the original lock assembly and just swapping the barrel I don't need to swap over the transponder ring? Why does the immobiliser not need that swapped over? Or what does the transponder ring do if it doesn't need to be swapped, is it not specific to each car? Does the transponder ring just help read the transponder chip in the key, so once the key and its internal transponder chip is matched to the replacement Ecu and cluster any transponder ring will read it.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you've just saved me a lot of fiddly work. So all I need to do is replace the Cluster / Ecu and the "lock barrel cylinder piece only) and I'm good to start the car? Are you saying as well that I don't even need to swap the "lock barrel cylinder piece" if I swap the new key fob head onto the original key blade? The keys I got from the breakers lock don't have the fob remote buttons like the original key does, so that might be a problem?

What's the easiest way for me to continue now in light of this new information to me, I'm not keen on swapping the key heads and such inc ase I damage them, I think I'd feel safer swapping the "lock barrel", this will mean I've got 2 new keys then too instead of just the 1 original I have. 

Cheers for the advice dude, very very helpful. I'm new to all this key / Ecu stuff.

 

 

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, Fordster1 said:

The "transponder ring" just so we're clear and talking about the same piece, this is the little black plastic ring clipped on around the lock where the key goes in, yeah. And if keeping the original lock assembly and just swapping the barrel I don't need to swap over the transponder ring? Why does the immobiliser not need that swapped over? Or what does the transponder ring do if it doesn't need to be swapped, is it not specific to each car? Does the transponder ring just help read the transponder chip in the key, so once the key and its internal transponder chip is matched to the replacement Ecu and cluster any transponder ring will read it.

The transponder unit is that little ring round the ignition lock, as you say.

It is a completely dumb sensor. It can activate the PATS chip inside the head of the key, and receive the digital number that the key then transmits. The power the key needs to send this comes from the transponder ring, so no battery is needed in the key for this. That is where the "Passive" in Passive Anti-theft System (PATS) comes from. The transponder just sends this code to the cluster. The ECU then reads it from the cluster over the main CAN bus. The security coding is stored in both the cluster and the ECU, which is why they must match. But any working transponder will do. All the security checking is done in the cluster and ECU.

The central locking and alarm is an almost completely separate system. The key fob (with a battery for this) sends RF signals, this time the BCM (aka GEM) does most of the work. The fob RF signals work from many metres away, unlike the PATS signals which are very weak and short range. The PATS chip must be withing a couple of cm of the transponder to work. This means the PATS signals are practically undetectable by someone outside the car, so can not be scanned.

The procedure to re-programme fobs for the central locking is in the user manual, is on this site lots of times, and is really very simple, just done in the car.

Re-programming PATS (the immobiliser) is very much harder. It can be done on the Mk2 Focus (and quite a few Fords) using Forscan and an ELM327 interface, but is not something to play about with, as any faults (bad keys, bad ELM, computer crash etc) could be hard to fix, leaving the car immobilised.

So just changing the inner lock part to allow the new key to fit should be enough. You may have to use another key for the central locking, or just a fob. They can be bought from eBay.

 

 

[Stoney871]

I think everyone here is on the same wavelength now [emoji846].


Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)

[Stoney871]

If you have the ECU and cluster but no key fobs with the key then keep the original lock barrel and get the original fobs recoded to the new immobiliser system.
A decent auto locksmith can do a transponder recode (plus a relearn of the fob to the central locking) in about five minutes using a professional module and shouldn't cost the earth.
A main dealership could do it too but will charge a fair bit more.
(Btw, I like to be thorough and I am always glad to help).

Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)

[Fordster1]

I finished swapping all the parts over tonight, just doing the lock barrel saved me a lot of work removing the airbag / steering wheels etc, so thanks to both you lads for sharing the info. Anyway, it started up first time and I just left it idling for 5 mins and turned it off as was late. It seemed to tick over fine, and no engine management light. I'll drive it tomorrow and see if the injectors are acting up or any other codes, etc..

However, the airbag light is now on, was thinking maybe because I moved the drivers seat back and forward when working around the dash, but now I'm thinking its probably to do with the fact I moved the airbag assembly on the steering. I only removed the 2 small screws holding the airbag assembly to the top of the steering, I slided it forward / backward about 10mm when trying to drop the lock assembly down but I thought it was all back together properly, both screws lined up ok at least when ***** it back down. I have all the connectors back together as well I believe.

[Fordster1]

I brought the car for a longer spin there today, seems to be driving fine, seems like I got away without having to code the injectors to the new Ecu? 

I tried moving the seat back and forward but the airbag light stays on, I left the battery negative lead disconnected for an hr just in case resetting helped, but the air bag light still comes on the minute I start the car. Would it just need resetting via a Diagnostic tool or have I disturbed something around the steering wheel causing it? The air bag lights wasn't on before I changed the Ecu / cluster / lock.

[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, Fordster1 said:

Would it just need resetting via a Diagnostic tool or have I disturbed something around the steering wheel causing it? The air bag lights wasn't on before I changed the Ecu / cluster / lock.

I suspect the Airbag module may need a reset or configuration after the ECU change. This will need a Ford specific diagnostic system like FORScan with a modified ELM327, as this module is on the MS-CAN bus, and most standard diagnostic systems only use the HS-CAN bus. It may appear as ARS, ARSM, or RCM or similar on the system. This system should give you the cause for the light on, it would identify which bag (eg Wheel or seat) is the problem, or if it a module problem.

I am not sure what screws were removed from the wheel, the Airbag is just clipped to the wheel by 3 very substantial clips, and lifts off from the front. I have removed mine a couple of times recently, to add a heated wheel! (Reynaud's, that is my excuse). It was difficult the first time, but quite easy once you know how. But the airbag wiring does pass through the clockspring unit, possibly connections there were disturbed.

I can give more info on Forscan and the ELM if wanted, and a step by step to remove the airbag. Haynes, I found, was not detailed enough about getting those clips free.

 

[Fordster1]

The 2 screws I removed from the steering were on the black plastic unit piece that has the stalks and things on it, I thought loosening that plastic unit would allow me drop the complete lock assembly out before i knew i only needed to swap the barrel, however this black plastic unit I think needs to slide up the steering to get it off after the air bag has been slid off first. 

I hadn't disconnected any connectors relating to the airbag I don't think, unless some of the many connectors around the lock assembly are related to it. 

I wouldn't mind getting set up with a copy of ForScan, is it straight forward to install, can I run it on Windows 7? And where will I get a cable for it? Whats the ELM? 

[Tdci-Peter]

On 3/24/2018 at 10:57 PM, Fordster1 said:

I hadn't disconnected any connectors relating to the airbag I don't think, unless some of the many connectors around the lock assembly are related to it. 

I wouldn't mind getting set up with a copy of ForScan, is it straight forward to install, can I run it on Windows 7? And where will I get a cable for it? Whats the ELM? 

The switch unit with the stalks should not affect the airbag, though the wiring is in the same bundle, and goes to a connector on the clockspring unit, which is the plastic box thing closest to the wheel.

Forscan should run fine on Windows 7. This is a standard bit I use as an intro to it:

 

Forscan is a powerful Ford specific system, Cost is about £16.00 for the interface. It needs a computer of some sort. (USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=58645

The Tunnelrat ELM327s have been reported to work well by several people, and are stated to be compatible with Forscan and ELMConfig.

http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992
or
https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

Forscan works best on a Windows laptop, with a USB ELM.  Forscan is also available for iOS & Android for some tablets & phones, using USB if available, or bluetooth or WiFi ELMs. But there are some limitations.

Wireless ELMs are often not as reliable as the wired ones. Also they are rarer in the "modified" form which is needed to access the 2nd Ford bus system. This 2nd bus is the MS-CAN bus, and links all the car interior electronics like door modules, and the BCM (aka GEM). But a standard ELM will still work with all the Underbonnet Modules (PCM, ABS etc) and with the IC (Instrument Cluster).

The Forscan programme is free (in Windows format) and you can get it from:
http://forscan.org/download.html

------

As I said above, you will need the "modified ELM" to interrogate the restraints module. The Tunnelrat ones are this, also they are available on eBay, and usually state they are compatible with Forscan & ELMConfig, which is another programme for th Mk2 Focus, that can turn on & off various optional features, etc. But Forscan is the one to use for diagnosis & maintenance.

Forscan is very easy to use once you get used to its slightly quirky user interface. Also sometimes a driver is needed for the USB interface. Info on this is on the Tunnelrat site.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by Tdci-Peter
Change Attachment ID

[Fordster1]

@Tdci-Peter - Thanks for the links and info on ForScan. I am going to try and download it and get it running over the coming days. Hopefully I can interrogate the airbag system then. I just bought the "Usb Modified  ELM327" cable off of the TunnelRat website you linked me to. Cheers for the link.  There's a lot of info for me to get through there but I'm slowly getting there I think.

 

Few questions,

1 - is it ok to install it on a computer that does be connected to the internet? The internet won't affect the licence or anything, it's all legit software yeah.

2 - Which of these 2 versions do you recommend I download and what is Wine? "2.3.13 beta for Windows Free" or "2.3.12 beta for Windows (Wine edition) free - without extended licencing to avoid Wine problems". Can the "Extended Licence" software be added to either of the above 2 downloads?  

3 - Is it ok to install ForScan on a computer that already has a genuine copy of Vags VCDS diagnostic software on it?

4 - What does "EML" stand for?

5 - Overall plan to get ForScan running to check airbag system:

- So I'll download ForScan,

- then apply for and download the Extended Licence program. 

- Buy cable which is the Usb modified ELM327 I just bought

Then with the Extended licence version installed and cable plugged into the car I am ready to use ForScan, yeah? Is there anything I am overlooking or am I making it sound too simple? Is Installing it straight-forward enough.

 

[Tdci-Peter]

10 hours ago, Fordster1 said:

Few questions,

1 - is it ok to install it on a computer that does be connected to the internet? The internet won't affect the licence or anything, it's all legit software yeah. -- No problem at all. Forscan is a relatively simple self-contained program, it has not affected either of my computers it is on, in any way. Load of people on this site have installed it, and I have never seen reports of problems, apart from, on a few occasions, the usual WIndows problem of finding and installed the right driver for the ELM adapter.

2 - Which of these 2 versions do you recommend I download and what is Wine? "2.3.13 beta for Windows Free" or "2.3.12 beta for Windows (Wine edition) free - without extended licencing to avoid Wine problems". Can the "Extended Licence" software be added to either of the above 2 downloads?  -- You want the first version, the 2nd (Wine) is for Linux users. WINE = WINdows Emulator for Linux)

3 - Is it ok to install ForScan on a computer that already has a genuine copy of Vags VCDS diagnostic software on it? --- No problem, Forscan should not not affect this, or interact with it.

4 - What does "EML" stand for? -- Engine Management Light, also called Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL).

5 - Overall plan to get ForScan running to check airbag system: -- You should not need the extended license for this. As far as I know, the extended license is only for PATS re-programming. I think it is the Forscan team protecting itself against claims of assisting in theft. Being able to re-programme PATS is useful for many legitimate owners, but may be even more useful for crooks!

It looks like a sound plan to me.

 

[Fordster1]

Ok, so my "ELM327 modified cable" arrived in the post today. I also downloaded the free version of ForScan.

@TDCi-Peter - I actually meant to ask what does "ELM" stand for in the context of ELM327 modified cable, I know the modified means its possible to access the 2nd can bus modules as I read in 1 of your previous posts. There is a switch on the Elm cable I received, do I only switch that switch on when trying to access the 2nd can bus modules? If I just want to do some basic things first like scan for fault engine codes do I just plug the cable in and leave the switch off? 

I opened the ForScan program just to have a little browse and familiarise myself with it, but am I correct in thinking it has to be connected to the car to actually see anything. When I just opened it whilst dis-connected there's just a list of headings but nothing within them.

The below link isn't working for me, is there a new link that you know of? I'd like to have a read of the practicalities of using ForScan and that link you suggested sounds like it would have been useful. 

"Forscan is a powerful Ford specific system, Cost is about £16.00 for the interface. It needs a computer of some sort. (USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21196

[Micro]

You can open in demo mode which will mimic a vehicle to give a basic understanding of the functions, but you need to be connected to a car to really show it's true power.

The switch changes from MSCAN to HSCAN, if your vehicle isn't detected the first time, flick the switch to the other position and try again.

You may need to be connected to the internet the first time you plug in the adapter, if your windows box doesn't have the correct usb-serial drivers it will get them on its own.

[Tdci-Peter]

20 hours ago, Fordster1 said:

I actually meant to ask what does "ELM" stand for in the context of ELM327 modified cable, I know the modified means its possible to access the 2nd can bus modules as I read in 1 of your previous posts. There is a switch on the Elm cable I received, do I only switch that switch on when trying to access the 2nd can bus modules? If I just want to do some basic things first like scan for fault engine codes do I just plug the cable in and leave the switch off? 

I opened the ForScan program just to have a little browse and familiarise myself with it, but am I correct in thinking it has to be connected to the car to actually see anything. When I just opened it whilst dis-connected there's just a list of headings but nothing within them.

Forscan does not do very much at all unless connected. It can replay previous logged data files, but you will not have any of those yet. I just had a quick play with the "Demo" box ticked (it is in the page you get to by pressing the button with the cog wheel on down the side of the main window). I needed to quit & restart, then clicked the connect icon (bottom left), and it did work.

Yes, to scan for engine codes, or when connecting, leave the switch off or in HS-CAN position, however it is marked. Forscan will tell you when to change to MS-CAN & back.

ELM is a small Canadian company that developed the software for the original interface chip. They only sold pre-programmed micro-controller chips for DIY building into stuff. None of the commercial ELM327 devices are made by ELM, and very few if any will contain a "genuine" ELM chip. It has been cloned and changed many times. ELM327 really now means an interface standard or protocol. That is a set of commands and replies that are normal computer compatible, that an ELM327 chip then interprets into CAN bus protocol commands and replies. It has become a de-facto international standard.

I do not know where Jame's guide has gone, I will see if I can find it (see below!). The site server was updated a little while back, and there were some changes to the attachments addressing, I had to change my bookmarks. I must go back and re-check some of my older links to attachments too. All my attachments are still there, I though they had gone for a while, but I think they have moved in some way.

Found it, I had a copy on my hard drive:

Using FORSCAN.pdf

[Fordster1]

I printed out some of them Pdf guides to using ForScan and ran through the demo mode suggested etc and made some headway, cheers again for the help lads.

So I managed to get the cable and ForScan connecting with my Focus and here's the results in the below 3 pictures. A few codes show up, I only looked deeper into the Restraints System ones though as its the air bag light I'm trying to extinguish off the dash. 

There are 2 fault codes under the Restrains, 1 is" B138 - battery Voltage Low" , seems to be an old code relating to a low battery voltage (Car battery was dying this 3 months and I have since replaced it 2 weeks ago).

The other code which seems to relate directly to my problem is B1934 - Air Bag Inflator Circuit Resist. Low on Squib - Loop 1, Front Driver Side. "Malfunction Indicator Lamp is on for this DTC".

It lists "Possible causes as: Front Drivers Air Bag Failure:

Check for:

- Open circuit

- Short to Battery / Ground

- Switch Fault

- Module Fault "

So, should I try resetting all the codes under every module first and check for codes again after a short drive and see if the Air bag light stays off if it will actually go off after clearing the codes? Is the Squib the spirally thing from the air bag that moves around with the steering wheel as you turn it? I suppose it would appear that this fault code is directly linked to me disturbing the drivers air bag when trying to remove the ignition lock assembly, however, I'll just remind us that I didn't actually remove the air bag or disconnect any of the air bag connectors, however I did slide the "clockspring unit" or stalk connector thing up / down a little on the steering wheel when trying to create more room to remove the lock.

Or is my "work" around the air bag area likely to be coincidence that the air bag light is now on, does the New Ecu need to be reconfigured to the air bag system somehow? 

I'm not sure what way to proceed from here?

[Tdci-Peter]

6 hours ago, Fordster1 said:

So, should I try resetting all the codes under every module first and check for codes again after a short drive and see if the Air bag light stays off if it will actually go off after clearing the codes? Is the Squib the spirally thing from the air bag that moves around with the steering wheel as you turn it? I suppose it would appear that this fault code is directly linked to me disturbing the drivers air bag when trying to remove the ignition lock assembly, however, I'll just remind us that I didn't actually remove the air bag or disconnect any of the air bag connectors, however I did slide the "clockspring unit" or stalk connector thing up / down a little on the steering wheel when trying to create more room to remove the lock.

First save the log file with the list of all the DTCs, there is a save icon at the bottom of each screen. Then, yes, clear the codes to remove any old ones, and see what comes back and when. A hard fault may happen again almost immediately.

I am hoping the B1318 and B1342 errors happened during the work, and will not come back.

The clockspring unit is sometimes called a squib, though I think it really means the whole lump in the middle of the wheel, with the airbag in it. And I thought a Squib was a small 2 man keelboat, I used to go racing in one around Weymouth bay!

The "clockspring" is actually a coil of ribbon cable inside the plastic housing, that unwinds from one side, and winds onto the other side as the wheel turns. So there are no springs or slip rings in it, the connections are directly wired. It takes the horn wiring, cruise control circuit if fitted, and the airbag. But there is a connector underneath, right at the front under the steering wheel. Check that is correctly inserted. Also follow the cable loom back, to make sure it has not got pinched somewhere. Low resistance sounds like a short circuit in the wiring, rather than open circuit.

All the airbag connections and any resistance settings needed, will be in the RCM, not in the ECU (or PCM in Ford parlance). As the RCM has not been altered, I don't think this error code is directly a result of the new ECU.

As a next step in diagnosis, I think I would disconnect that connector, turn on the ignition, maybe start the engine if needed, and see if the error code changed. I would expect it to go to high resistance with the connector out. If it was still low resistance, then a short in the wiring looks more likely. There are some tight gaps between the steering wheel shrouds, the wheel adjustment clamp, and the column, that could trap the wiring.

(It is always advised to wait a few minutes between ignition off and connecting or disconnecting any wiring that may have airbag circuits in it. Also avoid high levels of static: touch the car body metalwork before touching wiring. Friction between clothing and the car seats can generate big static charges, as I, and probably many others, have painfully found.)

 

[Fordster1]

I cleared the codes and brought the car for a spin and then read the codes again to see what came back. The air bag 1934 didn't clear at all though, came back straight away. Is there a way to clear all the codes in 1 go, or do you have to do them individually and go through the whole process of flicking the Ms / Hs switch and cycling the ignition off and back on as prompted for every code?

I read the codes when I cam back form a little 5 min spin and the picture below is of the codes that were found now, sorry for the bad quality pic, my screen is damaged a little in that area, you can just make out the yellow triangle indicating a fault listed under RCM.

I'm going to remove all the plastic covers from around the steering wheel and double check for loose connectors / crushed wires etc, as suggested and see if I come across anything.

[Fordster1]

Ok, it would appear I have succeeded in getting the air bag light off :):) It would also appear I'm a muppet and caused the problem in the first place but we live and learn :P

I took the steering covers back off and disconnect every connector I had previously disconnected when doing the lock, I also checked the wire loom and the connectors further under the floor well / base of steering column etc as suggested, all seemed ok. I then took a further look at the air bag connectors between the air bag unit and steering wheel and I pushed the plastic unit / clock spring unit I had previously removed the 2 screws from and slid a very small amount up / down the steering column previously when trying to create more room to remove the lock assembly. Anyway, whilst looking / pushing this again now, I realised it could be pushed up more towards into the air bag and I could see the big black wide connector going in further so it seems I didn't have that unit pushed back in fully, however I had its 2 screws lined up and in their holes.

I plugged everything back in and started the car and the air bag light didn't come back on. Happy days :D 

In my below pics the gold coloured bolt hole you can just see in the pic is the bolts holes for the plastic unit I refer to. Also the pics just show the big wide connector that wasn't allowed to be pushed home fully.

At least, this appears to have been the problem, I'll drive it during the week and hopefully the light will remain off.