Brakes - a few questions

[lloydyyy]

The brakes on my Mk6.5 Fiesta don't seem as sharp as they were a month or so ago. There's plenty of fluid in the reservoir and the brakes were last bled in November 2016. The discs and pads were last replaced in April 2016 so there's plenty of meat left on those. Would it be worth checking the drum brakes and maybe bleeding the brakes again? The car has only done about 87k miles.

If the brake shoes do need replacing, what sort of tools would I need? Would I need to buy a fitting kit as well?

Thanks again for your help

 

[Nikstryker]

Getting the wheels off first will be your biggest hurdle lol

Mine were stuck tight but i found a good tip on youtube - if you put a large wooden door wedge under the tyre then drop the ramp it bends the wheel and pops it off!

Discs and pads are probably the easiest job you can do and was probably one of the first I ever learned to do with my dad and probably the first any beginner should try.

I got a new set of front pads on amazon for my Fiesta mk7 - £11.25 and fitted em myself - Halfrauds or Kwik-Ripoff will want £150.

Copper grease.
Car jack.
Wheelbrace.
socket set.
Hanger straps for holding the caliper out of the way.
Bleeding kit (piece of rubber pipe and a 500ml Dr Pepper plastic bottle (my preference lol))
Bleed screw removal tool (or pair of mole grips).
Caliper piston wind in tool (i use an old pair of woodworking clamps with plastic end pieces £1.99 on Amazon).

Just use your hands to feel if there are any grooves in the disc and measure the width with a vernier caliper if  you need to - once the wheel is off you will soon notice if the discs are nasty.
Rotating them and watching for wobble will also tell you if they are heat warped!

Most stuff you can do for free and with improvised tools as i used to do with my dad when we were skint (part of the reason we learned how to fix our own cars) but a good socket set is essential!

There is a good vid of the whole thing on Youtube - Youtuibe is deffo your friend for all manner of repairs>
Checkout CHRISFIX, ERICTHECARGUY OR SCOTTY KILMER they are my faves on Youtube!
 

[Luke4efc]

When was the fluid last changed? The fluid breaks down after a while and It can get moisture inside which will evaporate as the fluid gets hot, giving you spongier brakes as you're compressing the vapour rather than moving the pad. The drum brakes have an auto adjuster which are known for breaking/ gear teeth being stripped.

If you're doing the drum brakes then yes I'd get new springs and adjuster as they're probably not in great condition with all that break dust and 10 years worth of grime as I doubt they've been done before.

[isetta]

dont bleed the brakes again unless it feels like it needs it, pedal travel too long or spongy feel. otherwise it will be waste of time.

when i took the rear drums off my old mk6.5 it had over 140k miles on and shoes were about half worn. I know these were originals as the car only had 1k on it when i bought it. 

I took the drums off as handbrake performance was poor. yes they have self adjusters but in my experience they stop self adjusting after a while. I adjusted them up a bit with a screwdriver and put drums back on and all was fine.

On a mk6.5 (at least on my 1.6tdci, I assume all mk6.5 drums are same) you remove the drum and hub and stub axle as one unit by undoing the four big bolts on the back of the brake plate (remove ABS sensor first)  . do not try messing about with the centre bearing nut. 

but in normal braking it's the front brakes that do most work so I am not sure how much difference you would feel from poor rear brakes. there is a chance the hydraulic cylinders are leaking and putting brake fluid on the brake shoes, this does occasionally happen as the hydraulic cylinders get old. 

[zain611]

I think you could try balancing the rear drums and handbrake cable. I did notice the braking to be a little better after doing that on mine. Probably the shoes make contact now with normal pressure applied to the brake pedal. The handbrake cable also is properly applied after just 2 or 3 clicks. I did this a few months back and I think it's gone back to how it was before it got adjusted. 

[Jethro_Tull]

When did they last have new fluid?  When was the ABS pump last bled and the entire system refilled with fluid?

[stef123]

Without actually conducting a visual inspection of the entire system, you’ll never know.

[lloydyyy]

Thanks for all of the replies, I really appreciate it.

The brakes were last bled in November 2016 when I had the calipers replaced, and I'm fairly certain it was all new fluid. I checked the brake fluid level last night and it was at the maximum marker so I don't think there's a fluid leak anywhere.

I'll take the brake drums off the car to see the state of the brakes. If the shoes don't need replacing, would it be worth just giving everything a good clean and putting it back together?

[Jethro_Tull]

Was of done at a Ford dealer?  If not, you'll still have an ABS pump full of old fluid, which by now will have contaminated the rest.

[lloydyyy]

1 hour ago, Jethro_Tull said:

Was of done at a Ford dealer?  If not, you'll still have an ABS pump full of old fluid, which by now will have contaminated the rest.

It was done at my local indie, whom I thought would've done it properly anyway. They didn't mention anything about the ABS unit. I couldn't find any info in the Haynes manual - perhaps they missed it out?

I found some info on this thread - there wasn't a mention of the Mk6 Fiesta.

[Nikstryker]

Yeah Jethro is spot on - Abs pump is a bugger - i once drained my Rover 820si and hadnt a clue why i couldnt sort the brakes bleed - turns out the pump on a Rover 800 needs a special mech-bleed that only a garage can do!

Rover 820si - Handles like a whale on a skateboard and sucks fuel by the wagon-load but by god its the most comfortable car I have ever driven lol
 

[lloydyyy]

11 hours ago, Nikstryker said:

Yeah Jethro is spot on - Abs pump is a bugger - i once drained my Rover 820si and hadnt a clue why i couldnt sort the brakes bleed - turns out the pump on a Rover 800 needs a special mech-bleed that only a garage can do!

Rover 820si - Handles like a whale on a skateboard and sucks fuel by the wagon-load but by god its the most comfortable car I have ever driven lol
 

Ah, this sucks. I never knew that for a Mk6 Fiesta. Haynes manual hasn't any mention of it nor did my local indie say anything either (just a normal bleed as far as I know). The brakes were bled in 2014 and 2016, both by local indies using a pressurised bleeder as far as I know.

From all the sources I've had info from I was honestly under the impression to use a pressurised bleeder so that old fluid/air isn't forced back into the ABS unit.

[TomsFocus]

Every indie will have a diag machine that can perform ABS bleeds these days, even FORScan can do it...  It's not often necessary though, I've never needed to do it so far, simple bleed is usually enough. 

If you've noticed a sudden drop in performance it's more likely that the brake vacuum hose has split somewhere or the pads/shoes have been overheated and glazed over.  The rear brake shoe alignment does also have an effect on the fronts so they need to be adjusted correctly.  You'll get a longer pedal travel if the shoes have to travel further than expected which can feel like the brakes aren't working as well as they should.

[lloydyyy]

I rang my local indie earlier and they said they bled the brakes before with a pressurised bleeder as the new fluid would go through the ABS unit anyway, and a friend of mine who's a mechanic mentioned the same thing.

The rear brake shoes haven't been tended to in a while so I'll set aside a day to see how worn they are, and replace the shoes or as a minimum give the setup a clean and bleed the brakes.

[iantt]

Could be a faulty hcu