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How Can I Prevent A Major Turbo Failure (Focus 1.6 Tdci 05)


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#31 JeffFocus

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 04:32 PM

Managed to change the oil and filter following your instructions thanks Graham. All went fine apart from I couldn't see where the o ring seal went that came with the new filter? Nothing seemed to fit it and there wasn't an old seal that I could see? Anyway it all seems fine and there's no oil leaks so I assume it's ok.

 

No signs of carbonized oil on the filter or in the old oil. The only place I could see it was around the rocker cover by the breather pipe which I would think it normal? it wasn't much, just a light covering. I did try and get the rocker cover off but the injector pipes we're in the way and I didn't want to disturb things too much.

 

Your link to the turbo failure investigation was an interesting read. However, if you only changed the oil every 30k for the first two years I guess that's what happens?

 

Good luck with your sump replacement project and make sure you take loads of pics! I'll probably me attempting it later on in the year.

 

thanks again

 

Jeff



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#32 Oldbeforemytime

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 05:53 PM

Quick question for you guys,

When a turbo does go, roughly how much would it cost to replace (assuming no other damage to the engine)



#33 grahamp

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 08:02 PM

Hmmm, should've been a large-ish o-ring that fits in a recess at the top of the screw thread on the plastic filter housing.

 

I've had exactly the same on mine, a little bit of carbonized oil at the breather pipe joint, the carbon here is nothing to worry about. There is a breather valve and filter that AFAIK ought to stop oil coming up here, but unfortunately they are integral with the rocker cover so fixing them means a replacement rocker cover- I wouldn't disturb the injectors myself, so I'll just have to live with it. But where does the oil end up? There's a chance it could get blown through the intercooler and over time could get everything sticky... I've heard of oil  damaging the throttle body seal and leaking from it. Something else to check out sometime I guess.

 

Yep, I've bought the bits so there's no putting it off now. I've probably wasted a fair bit of money on parts that could be cleaned and refitted, but I figured I'd best do it by the book. I can't promise a Haynes-style guide but I'll try and put something together

 

And yep there are some scary pics of gummed up 1.6's, but there is either some underlying fault or poor maintenance as a cause and you can find similar pics for other makes' engines.

 

As for turbo cost, no idea. If it has gone they need to figure the cause first and rectify, otherwise the replacement will go as well.



#34 JeffFocus

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:43 AM

Not sure either on turbo costs. I've seen you can buy turbo's on ebay for £300 but then you need all the other parts they recommend replacing like the oil feed pipe, sump and pump etc. The ebay sites are pretty good at explaining that unless you replace the other parts, there is no warranty on the turbo. I think these work out to be another £200. I've also heard stories that Ford charge around £1500 for "turbo replacement kit" which contains all the bits  :wacko:

 

Pretty scary really.

 

Is yours showing signs of failure? 



#35 Oldbeforemytime

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 05:25 PM

Thank you for the replies.

 

It's in with a garage and they started looking at it today, they said there'd be no warrenty on the work because Ford themselves say when a turbo goes you should replace the engine. As an employee of the group that made the engine to start with I'm not best pleased and would have avoided that engine if I'd known who it was made by because of the issues that it has.

 

Haven't been made aware of prices as of yet but I will keep you lot updated with what's gone wrong.

I'm quite hoping that it was low oil that caused it and not something more sinister.



#36 grahamp

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Posted 02 May 2013 - 08:18 PM

Oof, another one bites the dust, sorry to hear about your problems :-(   There's a very long thread on the Honest John forum of people with the same problem, though the chat there is a bit fixated on injector leak as the only possible cause.

 

AFAIK Ford don't normally recommend engine replacement - the turbo should be warranted if the work is carried out as per Fords Tech Service Bulletin 46/2008 mentioned on page 2 of this convo. Though it has come to engine replacement in some cases where they've tried to clean the engine and its gone on to blow its 2nd and 3rd replacement turbo...   Well good luck and hope yours has a happy ending. There was a modification done during production to try and stop it happening- I think they modified the turbo feed pipe so it was away from exhaust heat, to stop it baking the oil in the pipe. If your car is 2005 it'll predate the modification, so that's another possible cause along with carbonised sludgy oil caused by blocked DPF, leaking injector, etc. 



#37 grahamp

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:42 PM

In case anyone's interested, did my car over the weekend, replaced banjo bolts, feed pipe, sump off, cleaned out etc. Car is a 2008 90bhp with no DPF, on 58000 miles. Serviced twice by Ford at 14k and 32k with semi-synthetic, then when I bought at 46k, then 54 and 57k and now again at 58. Luckily I stock up on Magnatec when its £18 from ECP. So quite long intervals between first services and with all the horror stories I decided I'd rather replace possibly OK parts than wait for it to go bang. 
 
I found the banjo bolt filter was fine, the feed pipe was fine, as was the return, all completely normal. Ford have changed the design of the filter - original parts have the filter in the end of the bolt presenting a small surface area, the revised design has the filter inside the bolt so there's a bigger surface area, therefore less likely to block. So a bit of a waste of time and money but at least I know what's going on under the bonnet.
 
As for the sump, that was worthwhile. I decided not to bother removing the pickup pick and just fired a can of brake cleaner up through the mesh in the bottom. Each shot of cleaner caused a big load of black gloop to come out. The bottom of the sump holds about 1/4 litre of oil so it ends up contaminating any clean oil that gets put in. Dunno if anyone's had success using a vacuum drainer, the dipstick tube has a couple of kinks in so it might be tricky pushing a tube all the way to the bottom. I was glad I got it all cleaned out, and the oil is still coming up clean on the dipstick which makes a nice change from it turning straight to ink. 
 
I'll stick a how-to guide in the Guides section if I get time, there were a few gotchas and the usual "why did I start this ****ing job" 
moments so it might be helpful for someone.
 
So the conclusion.... don't believe all the scare stories about these being unreliable engines - unless your turbo has gone bang of course :-(  there must be some factor that causes the carbonisation problems, either leaking injectors, blocked DPF, poor oil servicing or a combination of the above - or who knows. The question is how would you tell if you had an injector problem or a blocked DPF before the damage gets done? I dunno if there's something an owner can do to diagnose those faults, I guess the problem is hidden away until its too late.


#38 Oldbeforemytime

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Posted 01 June 2013 - 02:27 PM

Now Ive read that injectors leak ---> oil burns --> carbon build up and muck in breather pipe ---> expensive turbo failure which nobody wants to fix.
 

 

Hi d0gMa,

 

I've recently been through the turbo failure, the TSB from Ford supposedly says to replace the engine.

I had the garage replace the turbo then check the engine for damage. Admittedly it has cost me almost £1k on a 55 plate Ghia which ticked over 50k the day after I picked it up.



#39 dreadz

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 07:35 AM

i'm on 2nd replacement turbo. 1st replacment turbo lasted 2000 miles- had everything changed as per ford bulletin. all warrantied though -cost me £££ first time round. Garage said this time that was partially blocked filter in banjo bolt..everyhting else was ok. so he said should be ok after this- keep on top of oil changes..what i want to know is - the banjo bolt with filter- how easy and what cost is to replace everytime i get oil change? seems worthwhile doing in the future? is it time consuming just replacing that part? surely it should have been a serviced item??seeing as its easily blocked?



#40 grahamp

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:07 PM

I'm going to put a how-to in the guides section on replacing the banjo filter, but imo if its getting blocked that's a sign of a problem elsewhere.. you shouldn't have carbon in the oil to block the filter in the first place. If you change the filter there's a chance it could be blocked again with in a couple of thousand miles so I think its a bit pointless changing it as a service item. The new design of banjo filter is less likely to block than the original though.

 

Essentially all that has to happen on top of what you'd do for an oil change is detach the charged air cooler pipe and remove the cat section of exhaust to gain access. If your car has a DPF its more of a pain. I'll detail all that in the guides section when I get a chance, but once its off there's the banjo bolt, so I think a competent garage ought to be able to do a non DPF car within an hour. 



#41 dreadz

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:19 PM

yeah mines dpf 110..garage said it was probably what was left in areas of engine they could not flush/ air blow down.. all pipes etc / fileters/sump etc were renewed so no issue there. although had injector 3 leaking pretty dam bad orginally- black carbon everywhere and had burny smell in cabin for approx 12 months..was well and trully caked! also sounded like a tractor with injector noise..

 

now virtually no noise from injectors on startup- prob for about 1-3 mins then silent - judt think i would raher pay the extra when changing oi/filter to do banjo filter at same time.. how much does the banjo filter retail at?  car was prob serviced approx 9000-13000 miles each time...so now will be changed at 4000-6000 miles now!

 

may even get dpf removed if turbo holds up

 

looking forward to that how to guide...cheers



#42 grahamp

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 04:31 PM

Banjo bolt is £6.35+vat, you should change the 2 copper washers at the same time, a bit pricey at £4.60+vat for the 2.

 

I might get a guide up this evening if I've got time, after sanding & teak oiling the garden furniture :-/



#43 dreadz

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 05:06 PM

see for the cost, i would be lot happier knowing that its changed...justb the time to get to it is the concern...could bump up the cost of filter/oil change considerably..thanks for the info though. i;m sure citroien or peugeuot recommend that filter to be changed at service? but ford dont? cant find the info to back this up though?



#44 lottysvdub

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:29 PM

Dreadz Having been a Senior workshop technician for 2 Citroen workshops I can assure you they do not recommend changing the banjo bolt at all...... Unless your having a new turbo......Then 1/2 the time they don't bother to the frustration of the technicians.... 

To be honest PSA have tried to sweep this fault under the carpet on all cars out of warranty. They simply are not interested..... I worked in one dealer where a customer had a C4 1.6 hdi with the usual turbo failure at approx 50k.... The old customer was given a price to replace the engine or to strip down the old one and clean out as much as possible + new turbo.... He was talked in to trading it in against a C4 Picasso which was far to big for him to drive in my opinion....... His old car simply had a recon turbo fitted and an oil change and that was all..... Within 3 days it was on the forecourt for sale at twice the price he was given as a trade in.....

Ironically his C4 Picasso had a nice whistle on boost even before he took delivery of it..... He did ask but was told by the service manager it was perfectly normal for that model...... Even though it was the same engine and turbo as his old C4 car.



#45 dreadz

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Posted 02 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

ahh ok, thought i had seen that on a few forums had visited earlier in year.so is it worth doing as an extra service when oil changing or am i just wasting money?



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