Hi all,

I'm looking to get a larger family car as our current 2013 Ford Focus is getting on a bit but also is a bit too small for our needs - it was bought over a year before our (now) 10-month old baby was even planned! Therefore the Focus' boot space isn't sufficient for our Joie DLX pushchair and Britax car seat. The latter has meant the front passenger seat has had to go forward so much so that bascially no-one in the house can fit in the front seat anymore haha

I've had a look into Mondeos, Insignias, Octavias and Seat Leons - both hatchback and estate but I'm still undecided what to go for. My budget is £12,000 which is made up of both a loan and Part Exchange on the Focus (have been told that trade exchange is £4,350 but am going to try for at least £4,500 as it's in near-perfect condition with only 44,000 on the clock). The Focus has also just had a fresh MOT which it passed without any faults or even advisories, as well as a minor service.

Ideally I'm looking for a car that will last us 5-6 years at least until we decide to upgrade again - e.g. plenty of room for a pushchair and potentially of camping gear and/or holiday bags.

So far I haven't had much luck tracking down many of the examples I listed above without resorting to higher mileage examples (60,000+) or going somewhere further afield to look at them (1 hour+ drive).

The bottom line is I'm looking for something:

• Not too old
• Plenty of space for baby things (car seat, pushchair etc.)
• Under £12,000
• Under 50,000 mileage
• With Dual Climate Control would be a big plus but not essential, as would cruise control

Bear in mind that my average mileage is pretty low on a weekly basis (1 trip to the shops per week so 3-4 miles each way, plus a 25-50 mile trip at weekends) and a 300-mile round trip about twice a year) as I usually commute to work by train.

I tried out a 2016 1.6 CDTi Design Nav spec Insignia yesterday which drove really well but didn't quite have all the extras I wanted (ideally dual Climate Control would be useful to keep temperatures optimal for our baby in the back and me up-front). Also, I've read about DPFs which have problems with low mileage which makes me think I should opt for a petrol version instead.

Thanks in advance!

There's a lot of hate for VX, what with this being a Ford forum and all.😀

But the Insignia is one of the comfiest cars I've ever been in.

Plus with it not having much street cred used prices are good.

Fully loaded new shape:  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202005299633807

 

23 minutes ago, Guy Heaton said:

There's a lot of hate for VX, what with this being a Ford forum and all.😀

But the Insignia is one of the comfiest cars I've ever been in.

Plus with it not having much street cred used prices are good.

Fully loaded new shape:  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202005299633807

 

Another way to look at the used prices is that they depreciate even faster than a Mondeo! And that's saying something. 

That's what put me off when I looked at an Insignia estate but ended up springing the extra few grand to get a Mondeo instead. Hold out and try to find a Mondeo estate as the right spec in that would have everything you need, and is a truly excellent car. A mark 3 focus estate would do the trick as well although there isn't quite as much space. 

 

1 hour ago, Shoxt3r said:

I tried out a 2016 1.6 CDTi Design Nav spec Insignia yesterday which drove really well but didn't quite have all the extras I wanted (ideally dual Climate Control would be useful to keep temperatures optimal for our baby in the back and me up-front). Also, I've read about DPFs which have problems with low mileage which makes me think I should opt for a petrol version instead.

Dual zone climate control is usually left and right at the front.  I don't know of any 'cheap' car that separates rear as well?

With your mileage, I'd say petrol is probably the way to go.  The lower fuel costs of the diesel just aren't worth the hassle of DPFs etc with low mileage.  Also, if you're buying 2017 or newer, the road tax is all £150, so no tax savings for diesel like there used to be!

 

Must admit, Vauxhalls look good on paper but I've had no end of issues with my own and family members.  Even the Fords were more reliable!  The depreciation is ridiculous as above...  I wanted to trade in My Vectra Design at 6 years old...  Was only offered £1400 for it!   I didn't find it comfortable either.  Was like riding a boat, the rear suspension was really bouncy over rural roads but couldn't rebound quickly enough on the dual carriageway so ended up giving a really rough, crashy ride at speed.  It was terrible on fuel as well, don;t know how they managed to make a 1.9 CDTi so much less efficient than VW's 1.9PD.  The only good thing about the whole car was the auto-dimming wing mirror, haven't had another car with that feature since!  

Edit - OH, I've just remembered the stalks!  Light and wiper stalks were a horrendously poor design, they didn't 'click' into place, but instead reacted to each 'push' and then returned to the centre point.  You could never cancel the indicator without triggering the other one!  🤦‍♂️ 

9 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

don;t know how they managed to make a 1.9 CDTi so much less efficient than VW's 1.9PD

Well we now know how VW make their engines "efficient".....

 

(I know that was emissions, but its a Ford forum Tom! Come on now!)

49 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Dual zone climate control is usually left and right at the front.  I don't know of any 'cheap' car that separates rear as well?

Yes, you need 3 or 4 zone climate to do that, so need to be looking at the likes of high end Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus etc for that. Some of those depreciate at an alarming rate as well, so after a few years can look tempting to us peasants. But what if all those fancy systems go wrong - unfortunately the repair costs don't depreciate!😀

I just have a soft spot for VX cos I loved my old vec b v6 gsi.

6 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

There's a lot of hate for VX, what with this being a Ford forum and all.😀

But the Insignia is one of the comfiest cars I've ever been in.

Plus with it not having much street cred used prices are good.

Fully loaded new shape:  https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202005299633807

 

Haha yes I did expect that to be honest. The Insignia was comfy but I'm not completely sold on the styling if I'm honest. The new-shape does look a fair bit better.
Incredibly, the 2016 Design Nav spec Insignia I looked at yesterday started life at a price of £21,000 or thereabouts, and was up for sale for just shy of £8,700! 

 

5 hours ago, The Finance Guy said:

Another way to look at the used prices is that they depreciate even faster than a Mondeo! And that's saying something. 

That's what put me off when I looked at an Insignia estate but ended up springing the extra few grand to get a Mondeo instead. Hold out and try to find a Mondeo estate as the right spec in that would have everything you need, and is a truly excellent car. A mark 3 focus estate would do the trick as well although there isn't quite as much space. 

 

Yes as above Insignias really seem to depreciate heavily - I guess something to do with supply and demand? I'm not massively keen on "investing" £8,700 only for it to drop potentially down to below what the Focus is worth now (around £4,800 trade-in). I'm hoping to track down a Mondeo estate but they do seem rare around these parts (Kent). I have considered getting a Focus estate but to be honest I'm wary simply because of the lack of cabin space we already have.

4 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Yes, you need 3 or 4 zone climate to do that, so need to be looking at the likes of high end Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus etc for that. Some of those depreciate at an alarming rate as well, so after a few years can look tempting to us peasants. But what if all those fancy systems go wrong - unfortunately the repair costs don't depreciate!😀

Ah I didn't realise that - that's annoying. What about cars that offer front and rear fans, are they easier to come by at least?

 

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Dual zone climate control is usually left and right at the front.  I don't know of any 'cheap' car that separates rear as well?

With your mileage, I'd say petrol is probably the way to go.  The lower fuel costs of the diesel just aren't worth the hassle of DPFs etc with low mileage.  Also, if you're buying 2017 or newer, the road tax is all £150, so no tax savings for diesel like there used to be!

 

Must admit, Vauxhalls look good on paper but I've had no end of issues with my own and family members.  Even the Fords were more reliable!  The depreciation is ridiculous as above...  I wanted to trade in My Vectra Design at 6 years old...  Was only offered £1400 for it!   I didn't find it comfortable either.  Was like riding a boat, the rear suspension was really bouncy over rural roads but couldn't rebound quickly enough on the dual carriageway so ended up giving a really rough, crashy ride at speed.  It was terrible on fuel as well, don;t know how they managed to make a 1.9 CDTi so much less efficient than VW's 1.9PD.  The only good thing about the whole car was the auto-dimming wing mirror, haven't had another car with that feature since!  

Edit - OH, I've just remembered the stalks!  Light and wiper stalks were a horrendously poor design, they didn't 'click' into place, but instead reacted to each 'push' and then returned to the centre point.  You could never cancel the indicator without triggering the other one!  🤦‍♂️ 

Good to know about the zone climate control. Presumably as above I could just get front and rear fans in something as "basic" as a Mondeo?

Yeah I'm already steering towards a petrol simply because of the mileage and hassle I'll undoubtedly get with the DPF. I'm aiming for at least a 2016 model of some sort which does seem to fit nicely in my price range.

Thanks for the warning about issues - I've been trying to find information on problems with certain models but unsure where to look. My Focus has been pretty solid in the 3 years we've owned it - passed all the MOTs I've thrown at it for one thing. Is it a common trait for Vauxhalls in particular to depreciate heavily?

Saying about suspension, that is one of the first things I noticed with my Focus on rural roads actually. One hit on a dropped manhole cover would send the back of the car sideways...bit alarming!

I noticed surprisingly on the Insignia I test drove that the indicator stalk was far too quick to click back into place, so I found myself having to click it back on again mid-roundabout, when I'd only seemingly breathed on the steering wheel to turn left to go around 

 

After my post earlier I had a call from a local Ford dealer who's got a top-spec 2017 Mondeo in stock at £16,000 - way over my price range but going to be heading over there over the weekend anyway to try it out for space and driving. It's got an automatic gearbox which I've never tried before but has paddles to override it so I might be sold on that type yet! What are the potential issues with automatic gearboxes though? I've heard horror stories years ago of automatics blowing up and then costing thousands to put right...

 

EDIT: Oh and one final thing - in addition to my point about finding it difficult to finding a Mondeo in these parts - the only ones I can find locally have a mileage of 70,000+ (even 100,000!) despite only being about 4 years old...

27 minutes ago, Shoxt3r said:

I'm hoping to track down a Mondeo estate but they do seem rare around these parts (Kent). I have considered getting a Focus estate but to be honest I'm wary simply because of the lack of cabin space we already have.

I got rid of a Focus hatchback because of the space in the back for the kids. I then got a Ford Ranger and suddenly had loads of space for everything - car seats, prams, dogs. 

Recently got the mk3 focus estate and it feels more spacious in the back than the hatch. Mondeo estate is the way to go though. Find a large dealer who has sites across the country, if they have one that’s more than 100 miles away they are usually prepared to bring it in for you. 

12 hours ago, Shoxt3r said:

Good to know about the zone climate control. Presumably as above I could just get front and rear fans in something as "basic" as a Mondeo?

Yeah I'm already steering towards a petrol simply because of the mileage and hassle I'll undoubtedly get with the DPF. I'm aiming for at least a 2016 model of some sort which does seem to fit nicely in my price range.

Thanks for the warning about issues - I've been trying to find information on problems with certain models but unsure where to look. My Focus has been pretty solid in the 3 years we've owned it - passed all the MOTs I've thrown at it for one thing. Is it a common trait for Vauxhalls in particular to depreciate heavily?

Saying about suspension, that is one of the first things I noticed with my Focus on rural roads actually. One hit on a dropped manhole cover would send the back of the car sideways...bit alarming!

I noticed surprisingly on the Insignia I test drove that the indicator stalk was far too quick to click back into place, so I found myself having to click it back on again mid-roundabout, when I'd only seemingly breathed on the steering wheel to turn left to go around 

 

After my post earlier I had a call from a local Ford dealer who's got a top-spec 2017 Mondeo in stock at £16,000 - way over my price range but going to be heading over there over the weekend anyway to try it out for space and driving. It's got an automatic gearbox which I've never tried before but has paddles to override it so I might be sold on that type yet! What are the potential issues with automatic gearboxes though? I've heard horror stories years ago of automatics blowing up and then costing thousands to put right...

 

EDIT: Oh and one final thing - in addition to my point about finding it difficult to finding a Mondeo in these parts - the only ones I can find locally have a mileage of 70,000+ (even 100,000!) despite only being about 4 years old...

Rear vents are much easier to come by, even my Mk6 Golf has them!   Not sure on the Mondeo but I would assume so!  

When looking at a 2016 model, I really would suggest checking the tax bracket, as it may be cheaper in the long run to go for something a year newer when going petrol.  Doesn't always work though, I've been looking at Golf GTi's recently and found there's only £10 difference!  If you were to go diesel, it's also worth considering Euro6 emission's if you intend to drive in London at all...or any other major city that might adopt ULEZ over the next few years.   Any modern petrol is fine for ULEZ.

The best place to find common issues is on forums...your best bet would be to join a Vauxhall forum (think I used to be on Vauxhall Owners Network).  Of course, most people joining forums do so to complain about a fault - that doesn't mean that all of them will be faulty, but you start to get a good picture of the same issues being posted over and over!  In the end though, some cars are bad, some are good, there's no way to tell before you buy...  No-one would buy Mk3 Focus' after coming on here but as you say, yours has been fine!  Vauxhalls do depreciate heavily but they're also much cheaper new, and have very frequent 'new car' deals, I don't think anyone pays even close to 'book price' for new ones!  The low price means they're often used as company cars, Motability, taxis and rentals which floods the used market after 3 years and knocks the price down.

Lol at the indicator stalk, glad to see they tried to fix the previous issues though!   But on a serious note, this is the problem with Vauxhall.  Cheap, poor design...  They do look good on paper, but you soon start to notice the poor design and low quality parts in the real world.

2017 Mondeo sounds like a good option if you can stretch the budget!  They use the Powershift gearbox which is similar to VW's DSG rather than a conventional automatic...there were some issues with Powershift but they were mainly Fiesta and Focus, a search on here should confirm whether the Mondeo had many issues.  If it goes wrong it is expensive to fix, but a clutch & DMF aren't exactly cheap on manuals these days!

Mileage will generally be high on used Mondeos...that's not necessarily a bad thing though.  My mates Dad bought a sub 3 year old Mondeo Vignale estate on about 75k and tbh it still looked new!  Just check high contact areas like seat bolsters and steering wheel.  And make sure the cambelt has been done!

Just to clarify on transmissions ref Mk5 Mondeo's 

If you buy a diesel auto it will be the Getrag Powershift Wet Clutch 6DCT450 trans, used in Mk4.5 Mondeo and various Volvo models. Trans requires an oil and filter service every 37,500 miles or 3 years whichever occurs first. It is imperative services have been done - if applicable, do not buy unless seller can provide written proof (invoice at minimum) that it has been done.

If you buy a petrol auto trans will be a normal torque converter type trans designed/manufactured by Ford USA in joint venture with GM (General Motors) a number of years ago

It is called a 6F35 Mid Range and officially it is a sealed for life unit (No servicing required)

Derivatives of the "F" range transmissions are now used in the late Focus Mk3.5 and current Mk4 Focus models

Hi Tom,

I forgot to say - with the short mileage you are doing, in my opinion, you really should go for petrol

BUT, if you go for Mk4.5 Mondeo petrol, which is turbo (ecoboost) it will be the Getrag Powershift trans (same as Mk4.5 diesel (unless it is 2.2 diesel)

If you could stretch your budget a Mk5 2 litre petrol, which is the 6F35 auto would be my choice.

I think the road fund/tax on the petrol Mk4.5 and Mk5 is £250 per year (not sure)

How about this, zero road tax, ha ha

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003128351747?advertising-location=at_cars&sort=relevance&price-from=15000&postcode=cv81ll&model=MONDEO&make=FORD&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&keywords=HYBRID&radius=1501&page=1

Thanks for the suggestions everyone!

Here's a couple I've been able to find relatively locally... 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003037979065

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202006260567849 (almost in budget, might be able to get them down?)

By the way Trevor - spotted that Autotrader has included a postcode in the URL you shared, may want to remove it for safety? 🙂 

The Mk5 Mondeo does indeed have rear air vents, but not separate rear temperature controls. Plus, at least on the Titanium X-Pack, an auto-dimming driver's wing mirror which I was quite pleased about.

29 minutes ago, erictcleric said:

The Mk5 Mondeo does indeed have rear air vents, but not separate rear temperature controls. Plus, at least on the Titanium X-Pack, an auto-dimming driver's wing mirror which I was quite pleased about.

Ah ok, so it would be a basic operation of open/close vents in the back? That's a bit of a shame but to be expected at this price range I guess!

12 hours ago, erictcleric said:

Plus, at least on the Titanium X-Pack, an auto-dimming driver's wing mirror which I was quite pleased about.

Nice to see they've finally included spec that was standard on the 2006 Vectra Design...    (not even top spec, that would have been Elite!)

 

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Nice to see they've finally included spec that was standard on the 2006 Vectra Design...    (not even top spec, that would have been Elite!)

 

It really bothers me (and other owners) that they didn't extend this concept to the passenger side wing mirror too!

1 hour ago, Incontro said:

It really bothers me (and other owners) that they didn't extend this concept to the passenger side wing mirror too!

Was the same on the Vec, never did understand why!   Some VAG cars had blue mirror glass back in the day which worked pretty well and was on both sides, haven't seen it recently though. 

37 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Was the same on the Vec, never did understand why!   Some VAG cars had blue mirror glass back in the day which worked pretty well and was on both sides, haven't seen it recently though. 

Maybe the blue glass costs more? The blue tint on the windows (not mirrors) of the Mk4 Mondeo Titanium was nice, but doesn't seem to be a thing these days. And yes, having both mirrors dip would be nice, but at least when I'm being overtaken I won't get blinded. Just have to stick to driving in lane 1 all the time I guess...

Hi Andrew,

Re - Autotrader has included a postcode in the URL you shared - thanks for spotting that - should be ok as it is not my post code (I did that on purpose)

 

The X Pack and Dynamic LED Adaptive lights ( auto dipping) are brilliant - I absolutely love the way they work (do a lot of M5 driving in the dark), only thing is if the lights fail they are approx £1,000 each. But they are a million per cent better actual light than standard beam ones