Hi All

I am the owner of a mark 3 petrol estate that I am trying to keep on the road. It has always started first time until now. 

I would really appreciate any expertise / similar experience that you guys can offer to shed some light on this.

Issue is as follows:

When I tried to start it yesterday this happened:

• dash Speedo and tachometer went round like in self test mode
• the windscreen blower came on full
• the trip meter rest to zero
• the radio went to “enter code” mode 
• Front windscreen heater switch does not come on (rear one does)
• there was a loud clicking from under the bonnet (which having checked I believe to be the starter solenoid / starter motor).

Engine did not turn over, just continues as above

I have done the following so far:

• Voltmeter on battery with ignition off = 12.8v which seems pretty good.
• Checked battery terminals, they were tight = no change
• Checked low beam on head lights worked and then swapped the low beam relay with the starter relay = not change
• Checked following fuses:

Engine compartment -

F2 Ignition relay 

F11 Heated windscreen

F13 Heated windscreen

F29 Starter relay

F30 Alternator 

F40 + F42 Engine

 

Interior passenger footwell -

F69 radio, instrument cluster

F78 instrument cluster

• Checked dashboard self diagnostic and it showed the following:

Battery 118

dtc 10A

dtc d262 (flashes from dtc to d262)

Questions I have:

   1. Does anyone know what hells going on?! 🤣

1. It feels to me this could be an earth issue, the battery earth lead goes order the fuse box so although the battery end is sound I cannot check the other, seems unlikely that would just fail though.
2. The battery strength on the volt meter is very good so possibly NOT battery?
3. The codes from dash diagnostic, I have not been able to find clarity on meaning, the dtc A10 possibly the MAF sensor?? But that would give rough starting if cleaning needed and not all the electrical craziness.
4. Could this relate to other earths on the car, related to front windscreen switch or radio or dashboard? If so where are they?
5. I appreciate this could be starter motor but I am discounting this as I have had a starter go before and there were none of these weird electrical dashboard issues.🤷‍♂️

I so want to save her as I’ve had her years, any wisdom greatly appreciated.

Regards

Adi 

This does sound like a typical flat battery.  Are you sure the multimeter reading can be trusted?

Think I'd attempt a jump start despite the seemingly excellent voltage.

You can also bypass the thick earth cable to rule that out using a jump lead from the battery to the engine.

Simple test to carry out.

Use just the negative jumper cable and connect it directly on to the vehicles battery negative terminal and on to a good solid bit of bare metal on the engine block. Try and start the engine. This will prove or dis-prove if it is an earth fault.

Mine's a mk3 Tdci, and the battery negative lead is strapped to earth under the battery tray and is a bit prone to corrision. You'd have to remove the battery and plastic tray to check it tho'. 

Thank you for the responses. I will have a try at the jump lead from battery negative to engine to see if it's that.👍

I have no reason to doubt the volt meter but I agree 12.8v does seem very optimistic.

If it's not the battery earth I'm not sure where next. I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Hi All

I earthed the battery off the engine with a jump lead and it was still no different. At least it rules out a battery earth issue.

I am charging my jump pack tonight and I will see if that helps, even though the voltage on the battery is showing a very healthy 12.8v.

If there are any more ideas on this weird problem I’d appreciate it.

I really don’t want to have to pull the whole dash board out but will if I have to.

Can anyone describe where the earth point is in the car

interior?

Not sure if there'll be enough access space but you could try bridging out the positive cable in the same way.  Using a jump lead from positive battery terminal to the large starter motor terminal.  (Take care not to earth yourself while doing it.)

If both cables are fine then it looks like the starter could be the issue.  If there's a massive short inside the motor then it could pull the battery voltage right down momentarily which is what reset the dash.

I'm not sure where the interior earth points are unfortunately.  Look around the top of the carpet in the footwells as a starting place.

A short inside the engine compartment might make sense.

so I’m guessing I would have to lie under the car to get access to the starter solenoid as it is low down at the front of the engine isn’t it?

The only thing about it being the starter motor is that in my head it doesn’t explain why the electrics / dash is involved??? 

Yes, the starter is at the front for the 1.8 or 2.0 petrol. 

(May be different on a V6 but can check easily enough if it is one of those.)

It's about half way up, so may be accessible from above.  Otherwise yes, you'll have to get on the floor for it.

My thinking was that if there is a large short in the motor or from the positive lead then pretty much all of the battery power will get pulled through that short when attempting to start, taking all power away from the dash etc.  I could be wrong though, it's definitely an odd fault.

Rule out any idea of a 'short' 'cos a short circuit will result in melted cables or worse, a fire. 

Try your jump lead, not from battery neg to engine, but from battery neg to bodywork - there are some earth points visible in the engine bay you can clamp onto. 

Ideally you want a test bulb on wires and croc clips to do some testing, as just reading open circuit volts with a meter doesn't cater for high resistance connections; you need something that draws current for proper testing. 

Thanks Tom and Nick..

I will have a check with the neg on body work when the rain stops! 

I do have a circuit tester with bulb so I can do some checks with it. What should I be checking?

i found it Impossible to get to the starter from top or below with the car on the ground so hoping to get to it from underneath once I can get the car jacked up (when the rain stops!) 

there is clicking when turning the ignition which is definitely coming from the starter motor solenoid or exactly that area.

I have some flea bay stereo removing tools turning up in a few days so removing the inside will be doable. I have avoided removing the dashboard clocks for the moment as advised.

I find electrical issues so hard to deal with when you can’t get to things!

 

Hmm....now thinking that the problem might be a jammed starter motor! Is there any way you can try bump starting or putting it into a high gear and rocking the car. I appreciate if you're on your own it's not an easy task. ( I take it you're not in the AA/RAC....)

 

Hi Nick

The car is parked on a hill and if I bump it down the hill, I’ll never get it back up! 
The only thing that steers me away from just the starter motor is the speedo and tacho swinging round and the windscreen blower coming on full. Surely this wouldn’t happen if it was just the starter?

I’m going to try and jack the car up and put in axle stands for safety and see if I can get a hammer to the starter from below to give it a little encouragement.

My thinking is that if the starter is jammed, then it would consume much current, due to lack of back emf. This would deprive all the other electrical systems of power,  certainly speedo dials exhibit this behaviour with low power. 

That makes sense. Not sure about the blower coming on full power though. I haven’t had time to jack the car up yet and see if I can whack the starter motor a few times to see if anything moves. If it doesn’t I may have to remove and inspect the starter.

Hi All

A quick update……

I fitted a brand new starter motor and nothing has changed. Turn the ignition key, the windscreen demise blower comes on and the radio speakers crackle (even though the radio is off), there is a clicking from the engine bay but the engine does not turn over.

I took a bit of video filming under the engine pointing at the newly fitted starter motor. I will upload it in a minute.

i cannot figure it!

 

15 minutes ago, Adi00 said:

Hi All

A quick update……

I fitted a brand new starter motor and nothing has changed. Turn the ignition key, the windscreen demise blower comes on and the radio speakers crackle (even though the radio is off), there is a clicking from the engine bay but the engine does not turn over.

I took a bit of video filming under the engine pointing at the newly fitted starter motor. I will upload it in a minute.

i cannot figure it!

Videos can't be uploaded here directly.  They need to be uploaded to YouTube or similar and then linked across.

52 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Videos can't be uploaded here directly.  They need to be uploaded to YouTube or similar and then linked across.

OK mate, I'll YT it.👍

 

Hmm, that is odd.  I've lost track of this thread a bit.  Were the thick battery cables checked or changed?  The relay only takes a small amount of current.  If a thick cable is worn, it may not be able to carry the large current needed for the motor.

It is weird, The cables on battery seem fine, no damage.

This happened to the clocks earlier as well…..

 

 

 

 

My previous video link dropped out for some reason so here it is again,

 

 

I think I’m going to have to try a new battery! 😔

Hi All
Thankfully the issue is now resolved.

What have I learnt?
- I now know how to fit a starter motor and I now have a spare starter motor in the garage!

- I know that what a voltmeter tells you about a battery on the surface may not reflect what is actually going on inside the battery.

- I know that starter motors are more expensive than batteries so batteries should be bought first on a diagnostic journey!

 

- I know that even though right at the beginning of this process I put a voltmeter on battery with ignition off and it read 12.8v which seemed spot on, with a new battery in the car yesterday and it started first turn of the key!!!!

- Most importantly I also know, throughout this, the discussion, technical and moral support you get from Ford Owners Club has been amazing!

I am extremely happy to have saved my old girl but frustrated at the round the houses route it took.

Thank you, thank you and thank you again you guys.

😄👍