Turbo Whine

[Xxnamxx]

Hiya, i have been googling this issue but most people suggest theirs also make a "wooshing" sound so decided to write my own.

I have two issues, one has been like it since i got it and one only came on recently.

The one that i have had since purchasing 3 weeks ago is that it seems to be really rough running when cold and has a sort of knocking sound and a fair amount of blue smoke from exhaust, this all goes away once the car has warmed up after a few mins but is really annoying.

The other issue that suddenly started the other day is a whining noise that i believe is the turbo as it seems to be when its getting the power as it does not do it at low RPM.

Any ideas guys?

Thanks in advance.

 

Edit: Forgot to add the specs, it is a 2.0tdci Focus Titanium 2005

[isetta]

"really rough running when cold and has a sort of knocking sound and a fair amount of blue smoke from exhaust".  possibly glow plug fault in one or more cylinders. Since you mention turbo I assume it is diesel. what engine size?

[FatHead1979]

When I 1st got my 1.8 TDCi it kicked out all sorts of crap on a cold start and run rough until it started to warm up, replacing the glow plugs sorted it out.

[Xxnamxx]

Thanks yes it is a 2.0tdci, thanks i was thinking glow plugs but wanted someone elses opinion, now for the whining issue.

[FatHead1979]

Have you checked your oil level since the whining started?  It could be that you're low on oil (not good for the life expectancy of a turbo).

[nazsky786]

Whining from the turbo is normal when it is engaging. If it really loud then you have a issue, check air filter is clean, and check oil. But a normal whine when on the power is normal.

 

[Xxnamxx]

Thanks for the info, yes oil is fine and i changed the oil and filter to check as it was due soon which made no difference. I wouldn't say its majorly loud just it didn't do it before, i took it to a ford specialist and they said they think the turbo bearing needs replacing but they said not really worth me using them to do it as it would cost more than the cars worth.

[JONATHAN_11_80]

Sounds like the turbo is failing to be honest if its the first its done well to last 12 years.  You could always keep driving the car and change the oil regularly to help avoid the problem getting worse.  Worse case is that the turbo seizes up potentially sending bits into the engine.

[Xxnamxx]

Thanks for all the info regarding the Turbo, I have decided to leave it until it gets worse as it is not worth changing right now due to costs. As for the rough running, i have had the glow plugs changed but it still is very rough running and knocking with the smoke as well still, any other ideas? would an engine management light come on and a code if one of the glow plugs was not getting power? as obviously I have no idea if they are all even heating up.

[Xxnamxx]

I have now done one more thing and that's replace the fuel filter which unfortunately did not make any difference with the rough running, has any one else ever had this problem and resolve it?

[Tdci-Peter]

On 8/19/2017 at 3:25 PM, Xxnamxx said:

As for the rough running, i have had the glow plugs changed but it still is very rough running and knocking with the smoke as well still, any other ideas? would an engine management light come on and a code if one of the glow plugs was not getting power? as obviously I have no idea if they are all even heating up.

I doubt if there is any monitoring on individual plugs for these cars. It would need the glowpugs to each be individually supplied from an electronic module that measures the current. As far as I know, there is just a relay that powers up all 4.

Have you checked the glowplug fuse? And a DVM on the fuse terminals while turning on the ignition (cold) would check the relay.

I think the next thing I would check would be the MAF. Sometimes simply disconnecting it improves the situation. No MAF is better than a bad one. It will make the EML come on, so you would want to have a code reader handy to check the code, and reset it after re-connecting.

Then maybe a compression test. If compression is a bit low, a cylinder will not fire properly. And as the oil gets spread around, and the aluminium piston expands & combustion chamber heats up, it fires ok.

[Xxnamxx]

On 9/25/2017 at 4:01 PM, Tdci-Peter said:

I doubt if there is any monitoring on individual plugs for these cars. It would need the glowpugs to each be individually supplied from an electronic module that measures the current. As far as I know, there is just a relay that powers up all 4.

Have you checked the glowplug fuse? And a DVM on the fuse terminals while turning on the ignition (cold) would check the relay.

I think the next thing I would check would be the MAF. Sometimes simply disconnecting it improves the situation. No MAF is better than a bad one. It will make the EML come on, so you would want to have a code reader handy to check the code, and reset it after re-connecting.

Then maybe a compression test. If compression is a bit low, a cylinder will not fire properly. And as the oil gets spread around, and the aluminium piston expands & combustion chamber heats up, it fires ok.

Thanks I have tried the disconnect of MAF which didn't improve the conditions, I shall do a check on glowplug fuse and test terminals thanks.

will see if the garage can do compression and leak off for me as I don't have the equipment for that.

[Xxnamxx]

Leak off test fine and garage couldn't get the car to start rough??!?????? Like WHAT! It is rough running every single morning for me, they tested it three mornings and said they couldn't see an issue. Get it home and the next day worse than ever with tons of blue smoke pouring out and rough as hell until it is warm, my parents who i purchased the car from are just saying that is how diesels run but i have owned Audi's and Mercedes diesels without them being like that at all! I am about to drive it off a cliff (probably with me inside it as i give up).

[FatHead1979]

31 minutes ago, Xxnamxx said:

Leak off test fine and garage couldn't get the car to start rough??!?????? Like WHAT! It is rough running every single morning for me, they tested it three mornings and said they couldn't see an issue. Get it home and the next day worse than ever with tons of blue smoke pouring out and rough as hell until it is warm, my parents who i purchased the car from are just saying that is how diesels run but i have owned Audi's and Mercedes diesels without them being like that at all! I am about to drive it off a cliff (probably with me inside it as i give up).

That is most certainly NOT how diesels are supposed to run, I have a similar 1.8 TDCi which doesn't even have a DPF and it doesn't kick loads of visible crap out when starting.  There is definitely something not right with yours I'm afraid, although it could turn out to be something minor/cheap, often the hardest part is identifying what the real root cause is for any issue.

[Xxnamxx]

Relay and fuse checked under bonnet, I tested the Relay with a multimeter and also swapped it for the horn relay as they are the same and it worked fine. Anyone know how easy it will be to check the glow plug connector to test 12v supply getting to them? 

P.S not sure if i should of noticed anything but the car felt exactly the same (ROUGH) with no errors or difference even when i removed the Glow plug relay completely and started the car?

[Tdci-Peter]

3 hours ago, Xxnamxx said:

P.S not sure if i should of noticed anything but the car felt exactly the same (ROUGH) with no errors or difference even when i removed the Glow plug relay completely and started the car?

One rough & simple test is to measure the battery voltage, or better, the voltage at the relay side of the glowplug fuse, while turning the ignition on with a cold engine.

The voltage should drop appreciably when the plugs are energised, as the high current pulls the battery voltage down quite a bit, and there are voltage drops in the wiring and fuse. 4 plugs will draw between 30A & 60A, getting less as they warm up.

You should hear the relay click as the plugs come on, and go off. If the relay is working and there is no significant voltage drop (compared to the same test with the relay removed), then that would mean the plugs are dead, or there is a wiring open circuit.

On the 2.0TDCI, the plugs seem to have bare terminals at the top that could be probed for voltage, but may be hidden under the EGR & cooler, so might be very hard to get at. But measuring the voltage does not tell you about the condition of the plugs, just the wiring up to them.

I seem to recall that I had a blown glowplug fuse on my 1.8TDCI soon after I bought the car, and in early Autumn it had no effect, and no error codes. Only in colder weather did starting get more difficult. In theory, the ECU can monitor the voltage to the plugs, but I am not sure if or when it does this. If you get no errors with the relay removed, then it suggests your ECU is not monitoring the plug voltage during starting either.

For a pic of the possible glowplug connector location, see:

http://www.talkford.com/community/topic/240683-poor-cold-start-no-glowplug-light/#entry2144879

[Xxnamxx]

Seeing as it has gotten quite cold i kind of gave up for the winter and have still not tested further but i do plan to test what you have advised thanks.

If anyone wants to see here is a video of my car starting from cold on the 5th Jan but starting this morning i wish i had recorded as it was twice as much smoke and even with windows and doors shut i could smell it with breathing inside the vehicle getting bad i had to drive with the windows open for a few secs to remove the smell (I also had my 1 year old in the car!).

VIDEO