Fiesta 125 vs 140

[merlin_gr]

Hi, looking into buying the new st-line, i was wondering about the differences between the 125 and the 140 variants. I 've been researching and i think the differences are : 1) the map, 2) 140 has a different gasket and 3) the differential. Is this correct?

The thing is that, due to the tax system here in Greece, the 140 is about 1500€ more expensive than the 125 model. I was going to get the 140 but the salesman promted me to get the 125 and change the ecu map after. Also,lets say that i get the 125 and map it with rica 140ps, would the difference in the differential be a big difference between mapped 125 and stock 140 in normal driving conditions? I 'm not intrested into street racing and stuff.  In ford's documents the 125 has a FDR of 3.941 while the 140 has 4.353 .Any thoughts are welcome.  Thanks in advance. 

[AlexBartlam]

i think but may be corrected that the 125 has a different gearbox or something, most people map the 125 up to 165bhp to 170bhp from revo ect, the 140 will have a better pull than the 125 but not a huge amount, for the extra 15hp its probably not worth mapping it to 140, the 125 has a lot of power for the engine. 

[ThaiFiesta]

You will get better acceleration from the 140PS ratio but the 125PS will cruise at highway speed at lower revs. 

Map the 125PS to about 150-160 will many of the solutions well under €1500 and have the best of both worlds 👍😉

[alexp999]

Same gearbox, just a different ratio diff which changes the affective ratio of each gear.

So yes on the 3 points, uprated head gasket, different map and different diff.

[sioneon]

For the power I'd say get the 140, I did because it www only a couple hundred quid more here in the UK. Its easier to drive than the 125, definitely feel the extra torque

[Blatto]

I test drove the 125 and then went for the 140 ST-Line. I didn't really like the very long gearing on the 125 version. The 140 could do with a 6th gear to drop the revs in motorway cruising but apart from that it's a much nicer drive in my opinion. The latest version does have a 6 speed box but I don't know how they have set the ratios e.g is 6th just an overdrive gear etc...

Modifying a 125 to 140 bhp +  would still keep the long gearing. I suppose in theory the longer gearing should improve economy a little but I get over 50mpg from my ST-line so I'm happy with that

My ideal would  have been the 140 engine in a Titanium model but for some reason they don't offer that.

 

 

[merlin_gr]

Thanks a lot for your replys. Since the turbo is the same part, i ll get and map a 125. The extra economy with the long gears is most welcome since unleaded here is very expensive. Most of my fears are the realibility of the engine and the gearbox due to the map, but at my dealer we can do it and still keep the warranty. 

[sioneon]

I've read somewhere on here that the 5 speed box is rated at around 220nm, because of that there is a torque limiter on 1st and 2nd gears in the 140 which over posts to 210nm. Just be sure not to cane it all the time otherwise you could pop the gearbox.

Maybea good tuner could apply some sort of lessened torque limiter while upper power in higher gears?

[alexp999]

The 5 speed box is rated more like 180-200Nm. So it's already being used to its limit. That's why Ford torque limit it in certain gears.

Some people have had synchro problems with some maps.

[sioneon]

I'd love to map mine but the risk of exploding a gearbox is too high, it's not a cheap thing to replace

[merlin_gr]

Is any way to find out how much torque the new 6 speed gearbox of the mk8 can handle? 

[ThaiFiesta]

1 hour ago, merlin_gr said:

Is any way to find out how much torque the new 6 speed gearbox of the mk8 can handle? 

Isn't it just the IB6 from the Fiesta ST and Focus 1.0?

[alexp999]

5 minutes ago, ThaiFiesta said:

Isn't it just the IB6 from the ST?

No, it's lower rated. It's the Getrag 6MTT215 (rated for 215Nm).

Pretty sure the Fiesta ST is 6MTT250 (rated up to 285Nm)

[merlin_gr]

11 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

No, it's lower rated. It's the Getrag 6MTT215 (rated for 215Nm).

Pretty sure the Fiesta ST is 6MTT250 (rated up to 285Nm)

Thanks a lot mate, so with a rica remap lets say, at 225Nm i would run into trouble in the long run? Even without burning it all the time? 

[alexp999]

There will be some tolerance built in to that figure of 215Nm, a bit like weight signs on bridges.

That said, the biggest issue I hear of is lifting the torque limits too much in lower gears.

The figures Ford advertise are usually only peak torque in 2nd or 3rd gear. It's typically reduced in 1st and 2nd gear. My Focus ST feels like it has no turbo in 1st on the standard map.

[merlin_gr]

Not sure if i understood. You mean that issues come up if you remove the torque limiter i 1st,2nd gear? I think the rica remap for the 125 variant doesn't remove it . It does remove it though in the 140 model remap according to their website. 

[alexp999]

It depends on the tuning company.

Some get the feeling of it being faster just by removing the torque limits. I'd want one that kept them in place or only lifted them very slightly.

Either way, don't forget you'll be voiding the warranty on pretty much the entire powertrain.

[merlin_gr]

Thanks a lot for the info mate! All of you actually! You 've been most helpful. The dealer claims that he will honour the warranty, even with the rica map on. He's the one that will install it also. Don't know if i can get that on paper though. I 've been their client for over 10 years with my Mk6 and i m very pleased all those years. 

[sioneon]

The 140 definitely accelerates harder in 3rd than in 2nd, 1st gear feels like there's no boost at all