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Dual Mass Flywheel Or Single Mass Flywheel Opinions Please


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#16 flying clutchman

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:53 PM

Well guy's thanks for all the advice I looked at all the pros and cons and got a good deal from the garage DMF kit £350  6 hours labour to fit all for £645 inclusive of vat great deal I thought car running great now.

thanks to Jason of JRC motors Sandhaven Aberdeenshire great guy

yep, that's about as good a deal as you'll find, anyone saying they'll do it cheaper probably don't know what they're doing!



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#17 IINexusII

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:00 PM

Sorry for bumping this.

 

My DMF is also on its way out, and i've been given a quote for £650 from an independent ford specialist (great guy, been to him many times).

 

the question i had is that is anyone running a bluefin/superchip on their 1.8 tdci? i was thinking of getting the car re-mapped after the new DMF and wanted to know how much it would add to the wear. thanks.



#18 Stoney871

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:33 PM

I have bluefin on mine and the clutch is going strong at 85k.

#19 FOCA

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:02 PM

Sorry for bumping this.

 

My DMF is also on its way out, and i've been given a quote for £650 from an independent ford specialist (great guy, been to him many times).

 

the question i had is that is anyone running a bluefin/superchip on their 1.8 tdci? i was thinking of getting the car re-mapped after the new DMF and wanted to know how much it would add to the wear. thanks.

Yes, should be ok, most remaps follow the torque curve of the stock map (ie - bluefin), so does not increase the stress on the trans by a large amount  

 

If you significantly increase the torque at low revs (eg remove the restrictions placed on some stock cars in the lower gears - eg 1st/2nd on the Mondeo ST-TDCI 2.2) it can put more stress on the DMF

 

So for cars with serious power/ torque increases its recommended to upgrade the DMF to a stronger one (eg Sachs planetery) or a solid flywheel/ SMF - if you are fitting an SMF i recommend you fit a clutch with a sprung plate - upgrading the clutch is a good idea too (stonger clamping force)

 

My DMF destroyed itself about 95k, the extra low end torque hastened its demise (its the torque at low revs that "kills" it - not the maximum amount of torque (if its gradual or progressive) or power) 

 

The way i think about it is why put a replace component that you know is "soft" the same as the one you took out that wore "prematurely" or only lasts xxK miles? - better to fit a stronger one that will last longer

 

The longevity of the DMF also depends on the way it is driven - and it will wear out quicker if it is driven hard/ used at low revs in a high gear or used for towing etc

 

If you are just remapping it it should be ok but if you plan future power- enhancing mods it may be a good time to upgrade the DMF/ clutch 

 

Other considerations are if you intend to keep the car for a long time (so you fit the best bits you can) or if you intend to change it soon(ish) (just do what is nessesary/ "less expensive")

 

Ive had my solid flywheel/ carbon fiber clutch with sprung plate and heavy- duty backplate + increased clamping force - i prefer the feel to a DMF, the DMF is "sloppy" and seems to introduce play in the transmission - the SMF feels more "precise"/ "direct" gear changes have to be timed right - i prefer this - it suits my driving style

 

Ive heard all the rubbish about the SMF breaking crankshafts etc - im glad i ignored this and listened to the experts - personally, i wouldent have a DMF near my car, especially not a cheap one/ LUK one

 

After 2 years of hard driving/ drag starts with a seriously power tuned motor - still now sign of slipping

 

And the thing about the refinement - an SMF is a whole lot smoother than a DMF on the "fritz"

 

Perhaps cheap, unbalanced, badly fitted or miss- matched solid flywheels were fitted to the cars that seem "agricultural"?                 



#20 IINexusII

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:09 PM

Yes, should be ok, most remaps follow the torque curve of the stock map (ie - bluefin), so does not increase the stress on the trans by a large amount  

 

If you significantly increase the torque at low revs (eg remove the restrictions placed on some stock cars in the lower gears - eg 1st/2nd on the Mondeo ST-TDCI 2.2) it can put more stress on the DMF

 

So for cars with serious power/ torque increases its recommended to upgrade the DMF to a stronger one (eg Sachs planetery) or a solid flywheel/ SMF - if you are fitting an SMF i recommend you fit a clutch with a sprung plate - upgrading the clutch is a good idea too (stonger clamping force)

 

My DMF destroyed itself about 95k, the extra low end torque hastened its demise (its the torque at low revs that "kills" it - not the maximum amount of torque (if its gradual or progressive) or power) 

 

The way i think about it is why put a replace component that you know is "soft" the same as the one you took out that wore "prematurely" or only lasts xxK miles? - better to fit a stronger one that will last longer

 

The longevity of the DMF also depends on the way it is driven - and it will wear out quicker if it is driven hard/ used at low revs in a high gear or used for towing etc

 

If you are just remapping it it should be ok but if you plan future power- enhancing mods it may be a good time to upgrade the DMF/ clutch 

 

Other considerations are if you intend to keep the car for a long time (so you fit the best bits you can) or if you intend to change it soon(ish) (just do what is nessesary/ "less expensive")

 

Ive had my solid flywheel/ carbon fiber clutch with sprung plate and heavy- duty backplate + increased clamping force - i prefer the feel to a DMF, the DMF is "sloppy" and seems to introduce play in the transmission - the SMF feels more "precise"/ "direct" gear changes have to be timed right - i prefer this - it suits my driving style

 

Ive heard all the rubbish about the SMF breaking crankshafts etc - im glad i ignored this and listened to the experts - personally, i wouldent have a DMF near my car, especially not a cheap one/ LUK one

 

After 2 years of hard driving/ drag starts with a seriously power tuned motor - still now sign of slipping

 

And the thing about the refinement - an SMF is a whole lot smoother than a DMF on the "fritz"

 

Perhaps cheap, unbalanced, badly fitted or miss- matched solid flywheels were fitted to the cars that seem "agricultural"?               

i plan on keeping it for the long run, as long as i dont get any other problems which will probaly get me too angry and sell it off.

 

this Sachs planetary you talk of, is this the same one as the one in eurocarparts?

 

also the garage i am going to gets 50% off genine ford parts due to having a trade account with them, he will be using genuine ford (LUK) parts.

 

i'm at 116k at the moment, so im probably running on overtime :S car drives fine though, apart from it feeling vibrating which is probably the DMF but i dont want to risk it blowing as i need the car everyday for commuting



#21 FOCA

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:51 PM

The stock LUK one could last another 100k+ (is that your 1st one at 116k/ have you had the car from new?) even with the remap - so it could be several years before if becomes a problem again (to put it in perspective) but the Sachs planetery one is stronger/ better, in my opinion - discuss it with your independant Ford specialist - see what he says about the Sachs



#22 IINexusII

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 03:22 PM

i bought the car from 100k (for £2400), and no clutch/dmf replacement as far as i know from the service history... the car had slight rattling if i dump the clutch when stationary when i bought it so i suspect the owner knew about it and wanted to get rid! its been mostly motorway driven, and with my driving style i don't think ill make a new one last that much :P

 

ill be talking to the garage and i've also emailed Sachs to give me the part number for the planetary dmf. if it is the one on carparts4less, then it will be £199.99.

 

http://webcat.zf.com..._teile_info.asp

 

http://www.carparts4...d13a4601

 

edit: well that was a quick reply...

 

Hello Mr xxxxx


The
part number 2294 000 660 is a planetary DMF and is the correct one for
your vehicle. If you are replacing the DMF then we would recommend that
you also replace the clutch kit. 2290 601 013 is a complete
module kit that contains the clutch, fly wheel and concentric slave
cylinder.


I have attached some service information about the Sachs Planetary DMF.
It explains the function of the unit and some checks that should be
carried out on the vehicle to prevent premature failure of the DMF.

 

I've added the documents for anyone needing the info

 

if this is the case then i could just go to my local garage in london rather than the ford guy in cheltenham where i work and get them to replace it, while i oversee the operation. that would come to around £450-500 with the sachs clutch kit

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