I'm happy, I've resolved this now... Someone on an Australian forum suggested the MIN-MAX dipstick range was not 1L...

I found in the manual Capacities and Specifications that the range for the 1.5L 3-cylinder Ecoboost is 700mL. (It's 1000mL for the 1.0L Ecoboost.) So even in my biggest estimate it wouldn't be over 544mL overfull (and the 1.5L takes more oil than the 1.L so I'm sure it's fine and the dealer was right). Good chance they overfill new engines for the break-in.

Glad you got it sorted.

Out of curiosity have you had any problems with the Cylinder Deactivation vibration. I remember that you were worried about it before your car arrived.

 

6 hours ago, Tizer said:

Out of curiosity have you had any problems with the Cylinder Deactivation vibration. I remember that you were worried about it before your car arrived.

No, but even though the car and engine are generally quieter than I expected, I am surprised at the mild rumbling sound (an engine labouring-type sound) at around 1500RPM at several speeds in Normal mode... I think in Sport mode this is quite reduced. It makes me wonder if this low RPM tuning in Normal is not good long-term for the motor. Or is it just a 3-cylinder balance quirk and not actual labouring?

I think for the people who get the bad shuddering vibration (maybe happens more on some of the 1.0Ls but also some of the 1.5Ls), it might be the same normal vibration I'm talking about but magnified when a cylinder deactivates. I will keep paying attention to see if I can detect CD.

Do you have any vibrations like this? And was your car built in the first quarter of 2019 or before? - I think those had the balance shaft in the oil sump rather than the block, and were noisier, but I don't know if that's a different vibration again.

Interestingly enough, after about a week since resetting the adaptive transmission learning, I'm getting very minimal shuddering, although sometimes it will shudder for a sec and then smoothen out. It's as though it's learning how I drive and behaving accordingly. But nothing can beat Sports mode for smoothness at low speeds and quick acceleration.

I've got my first service on Tuesday, with an oil change.  I'll have a look at the level once it's done.

14 hours ago, Zeeb said:

 

No, but even though the car and engine are generally quieter than I expected, I am surprised at the mild rumbling sound (an engine labouring-type sound) at around 1500RPM at several speeds in Normal mode... I think in Sport mode this is quite reduced. It makes me wonder if this low RPM tuning in Normal is not good long-term for the motor. Or is it just a 3-cylinder balance quirk and not actual labouring?

I think for the people who get the bad shuddering vibration (maybe happens more on some of the 1.0Ls but also some of the 1.5Ls), it might be the same normal vibration I'm talking about but magnified when a cylinder deactivates. I will keep paying attention to see if I can detect CD.

Do you have any vibrations like this? And was your car built in the first quarter of 2019 or before? - I think those had the balance shaft in the oil sump rather than the block, and were noisier, but I don't know if that's a different vibration again.

Mine has a Manual Gearbox and when the revs drop below 2000 I usually change down a gear before touching the Throttle again, so I never have the chance to experience any vibration at 1500 rpm or at any other low engine speed.

That is interesting about the change to the engine design, there is very little publicly available info on the Dragon engine here.  Mine was built in May 2019, so may be the later one.

Cylinder Deactivation is not disabled on my 1.5 engine when Sport Mode is used unless FORScan is lying to me. There are a lot of PID's including one for Desired v Actual Deactivation and this mirrors the PID for Commanded Deactivation whether running on Sport Mode or Normal. I don't know why some people only have the problem when not in Sport Mode, certainly with Manual cars. Automatic cars may be in a different gear in Sport Mode, I'm not sure, and Deactivation may not work on the 1.0 engine when it is in Sports Mode. 

I do think that driving a car in the wrong gear puts a lot of strain on the engine and Drivetrain, it wouldn't shake otherwise.

As an example the 1.0 engine has a lot of Torque very low down and presumably must have been built to withstand it because I have not heard of lots of engine failures, but there was a problem with premature Clutch failure. As far as I know Ford fixed this by remapping the cars to reduce the Torque and that speaks volumes about  too much Torque and  driving in the correct gear so as not to allow your car to shake itself to bits. Presumably the Automatic gearboxes can withstand this a bit better but if they are shaking then it can't be good for the car.

I just love these threads were you think it's a one response question, and it goes on forever branching out all over the place LOL

On 5/28/2021 at 2:03 PM, red_october said:

Interestingly enough, after about a week since resetting the adaptive transmission learning, I'm getting very minimal shuddering, although sometimes it will shudder for a sec and then smoothen out. It's as though it's learning how I drive and behaving accordingly. But nothing can beat Sports mode for smoothness at low speeds and quick acceleration.

10 hours ago, Tizer said:

Mine has a Manual Gearbox and when the revs drop below 2000 I usually change down a gear before touching the Throttle again, so I never have the chance to experience any vibration at 1500 rpm or at any other low engine speed.

That is interesting about the change to the engine design, there is very little publicly available info on the Dragon engine here.  Mine was built in May 2019, so may be the later one.

Cylinder Deactivation is not disabled on my 1.5 engine when Sport Mode is used unless FORScan is lying to me. There are a lot of PID's including one for Desired v Actual Deactivation and this mirrors the PID for Commanded Deactivation whether running on Sport Mode or Normal. I don't know why some people only have the problem when not in Sport Mode, certainly with Manual cars. Automatic cars may be in a different gear in Sport Mode, I'm not sure, and Deactivation may not work on the 1.0 engine when it is in Sports Mode. 

I do think that driving a car in the wrong gear puts a lot of strain on the engine and Drivetrain, it wouldn't shake otherwise.

As an example the 1.0 engine has a lot of Torque very low down and presumably must have been built to withstand it because I have not heard of lots of engine failures, but there was a problem with premature Clutch failure. As far as I know Ford fixed this by remapping the cars to reduce the Torque and that speaks volumes about  too much Torque and  driving in the correct gear so as not to allow your car to shake itself to bits. Presumably the Automatic gearboxes can withstand this a bit better but if they are shaking then it can't be good for the car.

I really hope the minor vibration I get around 1500RPM in Normal mode (with the 1.5L, auto transmission) is not labouring, but only a 3-cylinder balance quirk resonance.

It seems not to happen in Sport, so I'm thinking Normal mode is really an eco mode to minimise the turbo coming on (at 1750RPM).

Yeah yours (1.5L) would be the later one with the balance shaft in the engine block. The 1.0L manual doesn't have a balance shaft and the 1.0L auto has the balance shaft in the oil sump.

Yeah I saw your post that cylinder deactivation comes on a lot - I'd like to try this with Forscan myself sometime. Interesting about the PIDs - I don't know if anyone knows how to disable CD - it might be deliberately obscure.

Yes I think I read CD disables in Sport on the 1.0L (manual and auto). But in the 1.5L Sport doesn't disable it...

Yes automatics are just in a different gear in Sport at around 80kmh/50mph. My current thought is that the really bad vibration (which I don't have but some 1.5L autos, and some 1.0L autos/manuals, do) is a combination between 3 things: low RPM in a higher gear in Normal mode, cylinder deactivation, and a third factor like a loose mounting somewhere in the powertrain.

I don't think having a balance shaft fixes it, but it might improve it.
(All 1.5Ls have a balance shaft but only the 1.0L auto has one. There are 2 positions for the balance shaft in the 1.5L - no idea whether the older type is worse or better for the more serious vibration).

Complicated! 

Anyway after a week I'm tending to warm up in Normal (it default starts in Normal anyway) and then put it into Sport to reduce the minor rumbling (while hoping that this rumbling is not really labouring the engine).

 

10 hours ago, StephenFord said:

I just love these threads were you think it's a one response question, and it goes on forever branching out all over the place LOL

Yeah this part would have been better on the cylinder deactivation thread:
https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/118579-cylinder-deactivation-vibration/

but at least we stayed on topic for a whole page 😁

 

Chaps I think you are massively over analysing this.

Our 100ps Fiesta can't really accelerate from 1500rpm in a higher gear cos it doesn't have the torque or power there so it will labour.

My 182ps Focus can because it has enough lowdown oomph.

All engines turbo or na will labour and rumble and grumble if they're not given the right revs at the right time.

2 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

All engines turbo or na will labour and rumble and grumble if they're not given the right revs at the right time.

So with your auto 1.5L do you find Normal mode lets it labour too much sometimes without dropping down a gear? In Sport I hardly get any of the rumbling (admittedly minor) that is common in Normal. Also, do you mind saying what your build month is?

The only other thing we all want to know is.......wait for it........does your START/STOP still work??? 😉

I think my normal mode has adapted to my driving so yes will pootle at 1500rpm on the flat, only changing down if I want to accelerate harder.

I certainly notice a difference when I put it in Sport.  I drive in normal mostly as I enjoy the change when I use Sport.

Build is May 2019.

20 hours ago, VFR800 said:

The only other thing we all want to know is.......wait for it........does your START/STOP still work??? 😉

This must be a running joke but I will answer it literally 😀 I tried it today and it worked fine but I've had it off. I've been doing a lot of highway driving so I guess my battery is well charged.

 

19 hours ago, Guy Heaton said:

yes will pootle at 1500rpm on the flat, only changing down if I want to accelerate harder.

It goes up through the first 5 or 6 gears so fast. Today a few times when I heard the 'rumbling', I tried the paddle shifter to shift down a gear (not in Manual mode) - and it went into a more natural sounding gear and stopped the rumbling. I think I'll be doing this a fair bit in Normal mode since the automatic takes over the shifting a few seconds later anyway.

49 minutes ago, Zeeb said:

...I tried it today and it worked fine but I've had it off...

 

 

mmm... so, is that a regular Bank Holiday treat then? 🤣

Bank holiday - we have one of those in Australia... oh it means just means any public holiday in the UK. And yes, we celebrate by showing each other the hare-brained features on our cars and laughing out loud.

6 minutes ago, Zeeb said:

Bank holiday - we have one of those in Australia... oh it means just means any public holiday in the UK. And yes, we celebrate by showing each other the hare-brained features on our cars and laughing out loud.

Oh dear, talk about 'lost in translation' LOL G'day Paul...

G'day. I'm starting to think you were making some kind of naughty innuendo, but in case I'm wrong again I'll just laugh along 😅

On 5/26/2021 at 8:59 AM, Zeeb said:

built in January and delivered in May to Australia

Ah!!! that explains why your oil level is high. Your car is upside down 🤣

Sorry I just couldn't resist

Nearly all new vehicles come with the oil level spot on or within 2-3 mm high/low

52 minutes ago, iantt said:

Nearly all new vehicles come with the oil level spot on or within 2-3 mm high/low

Wonder if mine was refilled at some point then due to the long trip and delay.
(Jan 3 build, Feb 23 at Zeebrugge port, May 17 picked up.)
Or maybe they drain it before the boat ride and refill in Australia.

14 hours ago, Zeeb said:

Or maybe they drain it before the boat ride and refill in Australia.

For H&S reasons, all cars that are on static display in shopping centers have to be fully drained of all fuel, they don't touch the oil...

On 5/29/2021 at 10:03 AM, Zeeb said:

So with your auto 1.5L do you find Normal mode lets it labour too much sometimes without dropping down a gear? In Sport I hardly get any of the rumbling (admittedly minor) that is common in Normal. Also, do you mind saying what your build month is?

I have exactly the same problem as you and use the same resolution.  My car is an 2019 Active X Auto 1.5. Don’t know the build month - sorry!

15 hours ago, EKLT said:

I have exactly the same problem as you and use the same resolution.

In Normal mode, I paddle-downshift out of habit now if it feels a bit rumbly (or when I'm about to go up some inclines). Easy, and the auto takes over again a few seconds later.

It seems to rumble a bit less now anyway - maybe it adapted a bit or I've got used to it. I put it into Sport mode on longer trips once the engine warms up a bit.

Hopefully it's not a serious labouring problem anyway, but it is a small negative for me about the car which I didn't see mentioned in any reviews.

--

On the original topic about the oil level, I am now at 2000km on the odo and my oil level has dropped maybe 5mm since new (now about 7 or 8mm above max line which I calculated as about 300mL overfull). Oil is slightly dirty which seems normal for the break-in. Everything is running great.