37k is very low mileage for 7 years old.  Sadly that's likely to be a contributing factor here.  Have they given a reason for the loss of compression?  If it was running fine in the morning and then just wouldn't start in the evening that sounds like a cambelt failure?

On 9/2/2024 at 1:45 PM, BGROVER said:

67 PLATE 1.5 182bhp only done 37k on the day of failure....   been serviced every year, they come back saying the engine was no good lost compression need a new engine. Currently trying to get something out of Lookers or Ford, I can not believe that this has happened at 37k.

its a deliberate act

on news today - VW Germany are making 500k too many cars per year than they have sales, and 2 million too many per year across all european plants...  so they need them to die much faster !!!  its easier to rob customers with designed to fail engines than fight german unions on pay and conditions...

ford have done the very same thing and here's how...

designed to fail engines - From: durable engines you could park for 40 years and start them up - To: dead in many cases inside 5 years....

we went from iron liners with low wear, high natural lube, and rebuildable properties, to piston bores coated with junk. Allegedly for better thermal transfer and whilst some do have a cheap liners, why bother the idea was really for costs, weight and early failures, but marketed for thermal transfer

early plating techniques were a nightmare and reacted with high sulphur petrol and killed all the early BMW V8s - Merc had issues too, then developed their own which is also very troublesome

Alusil

Alusil is a cheap alternative to Nikasil. In fact, it was the cheapest way to build an engine block when it became popular across Germany. It is a hypereutectic aluminium-silicon alloy, which means that the silicon content of the alloy is higher than the eutectic 12.5%, reaching 17% (AlSi17Cu4Mg). After the engine block is die cast at low pressure, the silicon particles on the bore surface are exposed by etching away the aluminium. The resulting silicon particles vary in size from 20 to 70 μm. The bore is not honed like Nikasil or in conventional engines. Importantly, Alusil requires the piston skirts to be coated with iron.
The Alusil method was first used in 1971 in the Chevrolet Vega. Porsche started using Alusil with its original M28 V8 back in the 1970s. Mercedes started using it with the 5.6L M117 V8 in 1978. In the 1980s, BMW started doing so with the M70 V12, and a decade later Audi with the 4.2 40v V8. Almost every 6, 8, 10, and 12-cylinder engines made in Germany, except the few very recent V6 and V8 models, used Alusil.

Unfortunately, Alusil is not durable. It wears twice as fast as cast iron. The main reason is that the silicon particles actually fall off overtime. It is the primary culprit for premature engine wear in German cars, with oil consumption being an early sign. Also unfortunate is the fact that Alusil blocks cannot be restored. There are only two possible repair options, to sleeve it or to coat it with Nikasil. Since almost nobody coats Nikasil, the only realistic choice is to add steel liners. This is a very expensive repair, and it is very difficult to do correctly.

• Porsche M28, M48 V8
• Porsche M44 I4
• Mercedes M117 (560), M119, M113 V8
• Mercedes M120 V12
• Mercedes M112 V6
• BMW M70, M73, N73, N74 V12
• BMW M62, S62, N62, S65, N63 V8
• BMW N52 I6
• BMW S85 V10
• Volkswagen 4.2 40v, 4.2 FSI V8
• Volkswagen 6.0/6.3 W12
• Volkswagen 3.2 FSI V6
• Volkswagen 5.2 FSI V10

Silitec

Alusil and Lokasil are both trademarked processes of Kolbenschmidt. Mercedes used Alusil up till the M112 and M113. With the M137 V12 it started using its own “Silitec” processes to produce Alusil and Lokasil copies. Silitec engines are the crown jewels of cylinder bore scoring. While it is unclear how they differ from Kolbenschmidt’s processes, it does not take a genius to see that there must be material differences that led to such high early failure rates.

Two potential causes for coating failure are the distribution of the exposed silicon particles and the way the surface is etched.

• Mercedes M137, M275, M277, M279, M285 V12
• Mercedes M273, M278, M152, M157 V8
• Mercedes M272 V6

There is no Nikasil, Alusil or whatever coating to be found on a 1.5 ECOboost. Just good old fashined cast iron liners.

The only fault that Ford made is that the liners are casted into the aluminium and do not reach all the way to the top. In other words the head gasket does not seal directly onto the liners but on the aluminium of the engine block that the liners are casted into.

It is a known fact that in almost all cases cylinder 2 or 3 fails. These are closest to the exhaust manifold which in this engine is fully incorporated into the cylinder head. In my opinion cylinder 2 and 3 suffer the most from uneven thermal expansion while the engine heats up. Combined with the open deck design the uneven thermal expansion can start a leaking head gasket. When detected in time this can usually be solved by replacing the head gasket.

I have seen several cases where the leaking head gasket is not detected in time and resulted into damage of the aluminium engine block or piston failure. In many cases the aluminium material where the head gasket seals onto is simply damaged / burned away by escaping combustion gases.


Unfortunately many dealerships and garages will only replace the engine instead of repairing.

Usually these engines are perfectly salvageable by machining out the existing cast iron liners and installing custom made cast iron liners that reach all the way to the top. Every decent engine specialist or machine shop should be capable to perform such a job.

Apart from replacing the cast iron sleeves there are several ways to improve the open deck design. For example by installing a deck brace, by pinning or even by performing a full closed deck conversion using special closed deck liners.

Considering the extremely high prices of a new service engine and the shortage of decent used engines repair of the engine can be a viable option.

 

7 minutes ago, JW1982 said:

the head gasket does not seal directly onto the liners but on the aluminium of the engine block

Is this also true for the Mk4 EcoBoost 1.5L and 1.0L?

On 9/2/2024 at 2:00 PM, TomsFocus said:

37k is very low mileage for 7 years old.  Sadly that's likely to be a contributing factor here.  Have they given a reason for the loss of compression?  If it was running fine in the morning and then just wouldn't start in the evening that sounds like a cambelt failure?

Hi TOM thanks for your reply, no reason given just low compression, it did seem to turn over very quickly thus I thought it was the head distorted, I can not believe it would not even fire or cough. When the AA came out they where firing easy start down the air intake, still it made no effort to start. Just heard back from Fords, they are not going to give me a penny, even thought it was purchased through Lookers and serviced every year by Lookers, So now I am looking at scrapping what I thought was a really good car, that I purchased out of my pension lump sum. In the hope it would see me through, How wrong was I. sorry for droning on, a bit niffed to say the least. In conclusion be very careful when buying a Eco-boost powered car.

That does sound like a cambelt failure.  The crankshaft can spin freely on the starter motor when it is no longer connected to the camshaft(s).  Cambelt failure is rare on these though, as they still use a conventional dry belt, so you have been unlucky if it was that.

Sorry to hear the dealership won't offer any goodwill despite your loyalty to them.

You could price up having a used engine fitted by an independent garage to save scrapping the car.  If you do consider that, please be aware there are two very different 1.5 EcoBoost engines.  Yours is the 4 cylinder version used from around 2015-2018.  The other is a 3 cylinder version used from around 2018 onwards.  They are not cross compatible.

Personally I do not expect that the loss of compression is caused by a cambelt failure.

on an interference engine like the 1.5 ECOboost a failed cambelt will result in a locked up engine. Even if the engine is still able to rotate it will make a lot of mechanical noise and definitely will not spin freely.

It may depend on luck as to how far the piston is from the valve when it's first turned over.  Only need to snap a valve or smash the piston to get it spinning freely.  It's surprisingly easy to do and not always audible if you're sat in the car while turning it on the starter.  I have done exactly that myself a few years ago unfortunately. 

However, I do find it frustrating that Ford don't diagnose any further.  If there was only a loss of compression on one or two cylinders, I would still expect it to pop and cough as if it was going to start.

I've also checked eBay UK since reading your previous post, and there are hardly any used 4 pot 1.5s over here either.  Though many, many 3 pots which is a bit worrying, presumably mostly from crashed Fiesta ST's!

I would get a grown up to look at it and see what they say - never trust a garage - they just like you printing them money

 

I'd also not give up on the fight with Ford just yet - they know these played up far too much - so go a few more rounds in battle - I thought there was a lot of owners now getting support due to the constant stream of failures of these engines ?

 

what about this not sure which country  - Ford has released an extended warranty program for the 1.5L ecoboost. Coverage is now 7 years or 84,000 miles from original purchase date.  67 Plate : September 2017: February 2018 ?

then if that's really futile - get an Eng shop to mod in line with what JW1982 suggests - no way it needs scrapping - and I certainly wouldn't pay to let Ford fit another of their joke errors

 

On 9/2/2024 at 2:00 PM, TomsFocus said:

37k is very low mileage for 7 years old.  Sadly that's likely to be a contributing factor here.  Have they given a reason for the loss of compression?  If it was running fine in the morning and then just wouldn't start in the evening that sounds like a cambelt failure?

Well got an answer back from Fords, they are offering nothing, so I will take the high road on foot. Lookers no better 12k for 3 years motoring, total mileage of the clock 37k. Now I understand why its called eco-booooom 

On 9/5/2024 at 8:44 PM, Botus said:

I would get a grown up to look at it and see what they say - never trust a garage - they just like you printing them money

 

I'd also not give up on the fight with Ford just yet - they know these played up far too much - so go a few more rounds in battle - I thought there was a lot of owners now getting support due to the constant stream of failures of these engines ?

 

what about this not sure which country  - Ford has released an extended warranty program for the 1.5L ecoboost. Coverage is now 7 years or 84,000 miles from original purchase date.  67 Plate : September 2017: February 2018 ?

then if that's really futile - get an Eng shop to mod in line with what JW1982 suggests - no way it needs scrapping - and I certainly wouldn't pay to let Ford fit another of their joke errors

 

Thankyou don't really know what to do now, loosing the plot, I can not believe, how Fords do not care.

 

they never care (indeed never cared), they aim to make money if you are happy or not is irrelevant  - but they do at times get bitten by bad press / legislation / watchdog doing an article etc.

half the battle is consumers are not informed - I doubt you ever saw the BBC london article - that was a follow up or subsequently followed up, by a regional BBC radio show

its out there but these manus love to keep a lid on it

the world class crims on this front are BMW, they are designed to fail rubbish and give issues everyday, but they pay off the media to keep quiet - and the car mag journos aren't stupid enough to give up 3 week in the sun smoking about in the latest stuff, or a 12 month long termer to share the real story

 

 

 

15 hours ago, BGROVER said:

Thankyou don't really know what to do now, loosing the plot, I can not believe, how Fords do not care.

 

Did you purchase the car with finance?

You may be able to claim from the finance company as you have a right to expect longevity.

Check Martin Lewis' website

These modern Fords really are junk aren't they.

 

16 hours ago, BGROVER said:

Thankyou don't really know what to do now, loosing the plot, I can not believe, how Fords do not care.

There may still be the option to have it repaired at an engine shop.  Though it would cost you a few hundred in transport fees and diagnostic fees just to find out whether it could be repaired.

If Wilco is right and it's just the headgasket fault then there's a fair chance of repair.  Though if I'm right and it's a cambelt issue, which was then repeatedly turned over by the AA, then damaged valves & pistons may mean it's uneconomical to repair.  Unfortunately there's no way of knowing for sure until it's been stripped further.

I'm not at all surprised that Ford don't care.  Neither do any company.  All about rinsing as much money as possible from the customer.  But playing devils advocate, they couldn't realistically repair or replace every EcoBoost & EcoBlue engine across the world without bankrupting the company either.

On 7/27/2022 at 10:33 AM, KaraG said:

Same problem with my 18 plate kuga. 

 

I can't believe Ford are getting away with this...

Same with my 67 plate Focus, Ford or Lookers offering nothing, how can they be allowed to get away with it, 10.5 for a new engine a Gold plated Boom a Bang. I will end up scrapping it, dont wanna be ill over it

Once your blood pressure settles, I'd be inclined to do a session on my favourite search engine and see what I can turn up by way of engine rebuilders as Wilco and Tom suggest. There seem to be plenty about, some quite near to you, so worth a few phone calls.

Eg: https://www.refurbished-engines.co.uk/#:~:text=03333 444 925. Based just East of London in Ilford,

On 9/4/2024 at 10:45 PM, JW1982 said:

There is no Nikasil, Alusil or whatever coating to be found on a 1.5 ECOboost. Just good old fashined cast iron liners.

The only fault that Ford made is that the liners are casted into the aluminium and do not reach all the way to the top. In other words the head gasket does not seal directly onto the liners but on the aluminium of the engine block that the liners are casted into.

It is a known fact that in almost all cases cylinder 2 or 3 fails. These are closest to the exhaust manifold which in this engine is fully incorporated into the cylinder head. In my opinion cylinder 2 and 3 suffer the most from uneven thermal expansion while the engine heats up. Combined with the open deck design the uneven thermal expansion can start a leaking head gasket. When detected in time this can usually be solved by replacing the head gasket.

I have seen several cases where the leaking head gasket is not detected in time and resulted into damage of the aluminium engine block or piston failure. In many cases the aluminium material where the head gasket seals onto is simply damaged / burned away by escaping combustion gases.


Unfortunately many dealerships and garages will only replace the engine instead of repairing.

Usually these engines are perfectly salvageable by machining out the existing cast iron liners and installing custom made cast iron liners that reach all the way to the top. Every decent engine specialist or machine shop should be capable to perform such a job.

Apart from replacing the cast iron sleeves there are several ways to improve the open deck design. For example by installing a deck brace, by pinning or even by performing a full closed deck conversion using special closed deck liners.

Considering the extremely high prices of a new service engine and the shortage of decent used engines repair of the engine can be a viable option.

 

JW1982. I bought a 1.5 Ecoboost on which the whole engine has been replaced by an OE Ford replacement engine packed in the UK in Oct 2021. I believe it to be the revised block with drilled holes between the cylinders instead of slits. Would these still have the too short liners?

The design of the liners did not change.

These pictures of the revised engine block clearly show that the liners do not reach to the top.

Ford basically only changed the design of the cooling channels between the cilinders from partial slits to drilled holes.
 

 

The 1.6 ECOboost basically has the exact same engine design as the initial design of the 1.5 ECOboost. Both have liners that do not reach to the top and the 1.6 ECOboost also has partial slits as cooling channels between the cylinders. 

1.5 ECOboost (original design).

1.6 ECOboost.

Even the cylinder bore is identical. Compared to the 1.6 ECOboost the 1.5 ECOboost has a different crankshaft with a smaller stroke and different pistons. Because of the smaller stroke the engine block itself is also slightly different.

For the 1.6 ECOboost replacement liners are available from a number of manufacturers.

Regular ductile cast iron liners

Custom ductile cast iron liners (closed deck conversion).

Because the 1.6 ECOboost and the 1.5 ECOboost share the same design these 1.6 ECOboost liners (can be modified to) also fit the 1.5 ECOboost.

Pumaspeed for example offers both the standard and custom (closed deck) design and also offers installation of the liners by CNC machining.


From an economical point of view repair becomes a decent alternative for a replacement engine. Especially since the prices from a new engine seems to have increasing significantly and finding a decent used engine seems to be virtually impossible (more demand than supply).

An 1.5 ECOboost bottom end (short block) is currently listed for €3109,-.
An 1.5 ECOboost service engine (long block) is currently listed for €8283,-.

 

JW1982, thanks a lot for a wealth of information. How much do you reckon a reconditioning would set me back? Engine out, dissasemble, liners, machining, gasket kit, reassemble, engine back in..? I know it varies a lot but an eyeball ballpark would be useful to me now. Not quite sure how would the gasket fit on both the new liners and the block, but I'm sure it does somehow. BTW am I right to assume that the later 1.6 didn't have these problems as there was no integrated manifold yet and no clutch operated water pump? Would you recomend a particular gasket kit?

Hi yer I just had to replace my engine bought it off Seymour in Hamilton it only done 89000 permanent misfire in cylinder 2 compression tested it no compression at all it cost me $6000 for a crest motor if I had the old motor redone the same thing would of happened this new motor is the new design the cylinder walls are to thin and they warp blow head gasket but this new one has been redesigned I would advise you to buy a new design rather that fix your old motor because the same thing would happen all up it cost me $10.000 the motor was $6000 and it was $3000 to put new one in not cheap