22 hours ago, unofix said:

To test that the wiring and fog lights can work simply remove the relay and then using something like a short length of wire, link out terminals 3 & 5 of the relay socket. Both front fog lights should come on.

It’s been -4°c here so I was reluctant to spend much time outside. I still didn't have anybody to push the fog light button for me to listen for the relay but I just saturated the relay and fuse sockets with contact cleaner then inserted and extracted them a few times. I shorted terminals 3 and 5 and the fog lights came on. I figured that pointed the finger at the trigger connection but after I put the relay back, the fog lights seem to be working. It's now dark so I'm just going to accept the win.

On 12/10/2024 at 12:40 PM, Paulkp said:

 I'm fed up with being dazzled by "get you home lighting" and cars parked offside too.

Me too.   I can't see the need for some drivers to have their headlights on in clear daylight - totally unneccessary when they have LED daytime running lights which are better for 'being seen'. No need for rear lights to be on in broad daylight either.  If they can't see a car approaching in these conditions you shouldn't be on the road - Mr Maggoo.

Then there's the people that sit in the car and leave their headlights on when parked, dazzling anyone opposite.

I noticed when I was messing around with the fog lights that the LED strip is significantly brighter in daytime running mode than in the parking mode (I hope I have got the terminology straight); i.e. when the lights are in the off position, the LEDs are brighter than when the switch is in the first (formerly known as side light) position. I'm sure it all makes sense when viewed from a modern design perspective but to an old school thinker, it seems a bit back to front.

11 hours ago, Tangerine said:

I noticed when I was messing around with the fog lights that the LED strip is significantly brighter in daytime running mode than in the parking mode (I hope I have got the terminology straight); i.e. when the lights are in the off position, the LEDs are brighter than when the switch is in the first (formerly known as side light) position. I'm sure it all makes sense when viewed from a modern design perspective but to an old school thinker, it seems a bit back to front.

It's not back to front.  DRL's are designed to be used during daylight, so they need to be very bright to be seen.  Then they need to dim at night otherwise they would dazzle oncoming drivers.

I think my point may have been badly made but it seems to me that what we now call parking lights used to be called side lights which used to fulfil the function of what we now call daytime running lights. It isn't just my old fading memory - Jasper Carrott used to have an entire routine about how it was impossible to turn off the side lights on a Volvo (I'm pretty sure that was some time in the 80s) - thus illustrating that almost all other cars at the time depended on driver discretion whether or not to put the side lights on during the day if visibility was reduced. Somehow, those side lights evolved into daytime running lights and then the term 'parking lights' appeared - though I do remember that some cars had the feature that the side lights on one side of the car could be activated as a 'parking light' by putting the indicator switch in the appropriate position when the ignition was off.

Sidelights never really worked as DRL's because they just aren't bright enough for daytime use.  Even when I started driving I was told not to use them for any purpose.  If it's dark or raining then the lights need to be on, if it isn't dark or raining then sidelights won't be seen anyway.

Some sidelights were fitted inside the mirrored reflector of the headlight, which gave them a slightly larger presence, but still nothing like the brightness of DRL's.

Parking lights are a relic of the past really, they are still a requirement for parking on an unlit road over 30mph in the UK which is why they're still fitted, but I can't imagine many people ever need them.

7 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

DRL's are designed to be used during daylight, so they need to be very bright to be seen.  Then they need to dim at night otherwise they would dazzle oncoming drivers.

Snag is, some cars DRLs dazzle in daylight, and don't you think they should go off at night so the car does not look like a Xmas tree?

Lighting on modern cars is just gormless......

34 minutes ago, Paulkp said:

Snag is, some cars DRLs dazzle in daylight, and don't you think they should go off at night so the car does not look like a Xmas tree?

Lighting on modern cars is just gormless......

LED DRLs must dim at night to prevent dazzle.  They do look silly next to yellow halogens but I don't mind them next to Xenon's or LEDs.

3 hours ago, Paulkp said:

and don't you think they should go off at night so the car does not look like a Xmas tree?

This can happen if you turn the lights off.

Too much tree and just not enough light 🤣

On 12/10/2024 at 11:36 AM, unofix said:

Yes.

Cars that have automatic headlights will turn them on when the wipers are turned on.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/driving-in-adverse-weather-conditions-226-to-237#:~:text=Rule 226. You MUST use headlights when,off when visibility improves (see Rule 236).

That says "when you cannot see for more than 100m".

Is there another clause that says "if it's raining"?

On my car the "wipers on therefore lights on" function only happens if I switch the headlamp switch to 'auto'.

3 hours ago, alanfp said:

Is there another clause that says "if it's raining"?

I believe there is.

I don't have the latest vehicle lighting regulations document to hand but I've seen reference to it made regarding wipers and headlights.

As far as I know it is now taught to learner drivers "Wipers On, Lights On" perhaps if there are any driving instructors on the forum they could confirm this.