Rattling noise when clutch pedal is depressed

[ianmccracken]

Hi everyone,

2001 1.8 TDCi, 170,000 km.  5 speed manual.  Car has been great but recently I have noticed a mechanical rattle coming from the clutch/transmission area when I depress the clutch pedal.  It dissappears when I release the pedal.  Have not noticed any clutch slip.  It sounds like something is lose and rattling around or possibly a bearing has gone bad.   I will check the transmission oil tomorrow....it may be a little low.  

Any ideas?    Thanks!!

[artscot79]

sounds like the clutch release bearings on its way out new clutch kit time I think

[ianmccracken]

Thanks for the advice!  I was afraid of that!    Do you know how long I can use the car before I HAVE to fix it?   How involved is the job?  Could I do it?   (I have middle skills and tools...have dione belts, bearings, brakes etc)   Mechanics are expensive in Norway :)

Thanks again Arthur!  

[artscot79]

its a whole gearbox out job front subframe needs drooped so a big job even in the uk its around £350-600 to have done hence why I said its better to replace the clutch and release bearing

no way of telling how long it will last it coil go tomorrow it could go next year when it does go that's it you're stranded

[alexp999]

You sure it's not the dmf?

On my old 1.8 tdci mk1 the dmf went and rattled when the clutch pedal was down. 

 

bearings normally whistle or howl

 

[mjt]

I'd go with Alex on this one.

[artscot79]

release bearing rattles not whistle or howl could be the dmf either way its a whole kit as I said no point changing any gearbox parts without doing all the parts so clutch release bearing dmf labour etc

[ianmccracken]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies!   The noise only starts when the clutch pedal is fully depressed....no noise halfway.   When fully depressed it is quite a noise..starts low but gets louder after 5 seconds or so.....it sounds like something mechanical is loose....not just a bearing going out.   In fact the sound seem to spread to the entire engine....so I think Alex and Mike might be right about the flywheel. There is no noise whatsoever when clutch pedal is fully released.     I was hoping it might be the pilot bearing and I could just put up with it!

My question is if I can get away with putting off the repair for another 10K miles or so?    There is no clutch slip at all.   BUT if it is the dmf that sounds like it could cause more serious side effects.   I do not mind running the risk of being stranded with a broken clutch - most of my driving is close to home - as long as I do not destroy the engine!

I presume a new dmf is even more involved than a new clutch requiring trans removal etc. ?.  Of course I would change the clutch at the same time. 

The engine and drivetrain all seem fine except for this loud rattle noise when the clutch is engaged .  No engine vibrations or shudder or difficult gear changes underway,     I only hear it at standstil or very low speeds btw....I guess it may occur at motorway speeds but then it is drowned out by other noise.

Thanks in advance for any further advise!  

[iantt]

does sound like dmf, sometimes as you press clutch down you may feel the pedal pulsate slightly , but not always. 

wont be gearbox if your saying its is noisey with clutch pedal down , that stops any rotation of the gearbox bearings.

gearbox will have to come out,clutch off and flywheel inspection , then replacement dmf and or  clutch assy as required

[ianmccracken]

Thanks Ian! :)  

Just to beat a dead horse a little more....:)   I am confused about something:    I only hear the noise when clutch is fully depressed....no pulsing....smooth movement. Good to know it's not the gear box!   But what confuses me is that if it's the DMF I would hear that more often, when when the clutch is engaged and not engaged yes?    That made me think pilot bearing may be the source of the noise, and I wounder if that is the kind of failure the car can live with for another 10K miles?

Of course I realize it would be better remove gear box, bell housing and take a look but it's that expense I am trying to avoid.   Unless you all think I am taking way too big a risk...then I will have to just bit the bullet! :)

[alexp999]

Rattle when clutch fully depressed sounds exactly like the DMF to me.

It starts to break up and when there is no pressure on it from the clutch it rattles - with the clutch pushing against the DMF it holds it all in place and shuts it up.

The problem with leaving it, will be if bits starts to come off the DMF and fly around the bell housing and damage anything else. I've never left a bad DMF so don't know how much damage it is capable of.

[iantt]

They can break up to the point of jamming up, and then your having to cut the centre out of flywheel to access the flywheel bolts to remove it, that's a pain and dusty/dirty with an angle grinder or cutting disc.

[ianmccracken]

Thanks again Alex and Ian!   I think you are right...unfortunately :)  I'll get a price from the garage I use but I fear it's going to be about half as much as the car is worth!  (Work will cost about £1000 pounds over here and the car is only worth £2,000)

I may try the job myself...I have most of what I need except for the tools to remove the bolts to the flywheel.   I know a retired mechanic also...he may be willing to do it for me.

Thanks again! 

[ianmccracken]

Hi Alex and Ian, hopefully you are still following this, I have a couple of Q's...

I have driven the car for an additional 5 km or so and the noise is worse as is engine vibration.  The rattling seems worse with clutch half way depressed now and I have noticed some judder under way.  So I think the dmf is getting worse.  I do not intend to drive the car anymore. 

Garage need  £ 1,400 to do the job - parts are half that - v expensive in Norway.

I can buy the parts in the UK for about $300.  I am confident I can change the clutch.  But am concerned about the dmf..

1)  Do I need a special tool to remove the dmf bolts?   Any idea where I can get the tool from?

2) Are special skills/knowledge required to fit the dmf properly with respect to timing marks?

Thanks again!!

Ian

[iantt]

Easy enough while it rattles means its not jammed up hopefully, box out, clutch off, cant remember what socket you need for flywheel bolts, think there torx bolts, just undo and remove flywheel. The holes for flywheel bolts are offset so you cant get it on wrong.

[mjt]

The photos in the Haynes for the 2001-2004 1.8TDCi show normal hex-head flywheel bolts. It states that new ones must be used with thread-locking compound and tightened in two stages, first to a torque of 35Nm and then by an angle of a further 45 degrees.

It's worth getting the manual if only for the torque figures for all the other bolts and nuts that you'll be removing.

[ianmccracken]

Thanks very much Mike and Ian!   Sorry for the late reply but I have been away.   I will buy a Haynes manual!

I do have one more question:   I am going to buy the parts from CarPartsforless.   They have two clutches....plate diameter 220 and 230.  I don't suppose you know which is the correct size do you?   2001 TDCi.....

Thanks very much again!!   Ian

 

[mjt]

To quote Haynes:

Transmission type:

1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 litre petrol models ....... iB5

2.0 litre petrol and diesel models .......... MTX 75

Clutch Friction disc diameter:

iB5 transmission ...............  210mm

MTX 75 transmission ..........228mm

That's kind of ambiguous because it seems to be implying '2.0 litre diesel' .... but I guess it really means all diesel models. I'm also guessing the MTX75 transmission is the one with the collar on the gearstick to lift when selecting reverse. Our 1.8HE petrol doesn't have that and I think that's fitted with the iB5.

[ianmccracken]

Hi Mike!   Thanks very much, that is so helpful of you.  I have the pull up collar so I am sure I have the MTX 75.   It would also make sense to have the larger clutch as the diesel has higher torque.   (The clutch I am buying actually says 230 plate diameter but hopefully it fits!).  

I hope they include the clutch aligner fake spindle part...

My only final decision is if to buy clutch and dmf for   £ 270 from PartsforLess or about half that from E Bay - supposedly new......   I think I'll stick with PartsforLess.

Thanks again!

[FatHead1979]

3 hours ago, ianmccracken said:

Hi Mike!   Thanks very much, that is so helpful of you.  I have the pull up collar so I am sure I have the MTX 75.   It would also make sense to have the larger clutch as the diesel has higher torque.   (The clutch I am buying actually says 230 plate diameter but hopefully it fits!).  

I hope they include the clutch aligner fake spindle part...

My only final decision is if to buy clutch and dmf for   £ 270 from PartsforLess or about half that from E Bay - supposedly new......   I think I'll stick with PartsforLess.

Thanks again!

Do you know what brand the clutch is?

I ask because a few people on here have fitted a "cheaper" clutch i.e. not a LUK clutch & within 15-20K miles have had it go again (just a thought)

It's hardly scientific but 2 of my mates have fitted non LUK clutches to their TDCI's in the last 5 years & neither lasted more than 2 years.

[ianmccracken]

Hi Damien,  I bought the LUK parts :)   So much labour involved...not much point in saving on the parts.   Thanks!

[ippy]

if you use luk clutch kit get a luk dmf

[ianmccracken]

Hi Ian, Damian and Mike,

I have the luk clutch kit and dmf.   Bought the dmf bolts too.   However, I did not know I needed the luk clutch alignment kit-tool that they recommend.  The Haynes manual says I can use a bolt that fits and basically just be careful making sure it is all aligned right.    

What do you think?  Do I really need the alignment tool?

The only other concern I have is getting the existing dmf bolts loose....I plan to hit them with a hammer and rod a bunch of times to loosen them up :)

Thanks!   Ian

[FatHead1979]

Let us all know how you get on mate

[ianmccracken]

Will do Damien.  I have to do it between work but plan to get started Thursday.   Do you think I need the clutch alignment tool or can I get away with using a dowel or bolt that fits snugly?