Hi

Bought a 2004 1.8 Duratec Mondeo Estate unseen. Only paid £120 for it, so not too worried.

Drove home absolutely fine, smooth and quiet engine, except above about 2500 rpm you start to get a significant rattle/ knock. Initially thought it might be the inlet manifold, but on inspection sounds too loud and too far back in the engine bay for that. It does sound as if its towards the top of the engine, but difficult to tell.

Just wondering if anyone could watch the attached video (about 30 seconds) of it running and give their opinion it would be appreciated.

Thanks in anticipation.

that sounds bad, could be timing chain loose and hitting cam cover.just take cam cover off and check for marks on inside of of cover near where chain runs.

Many thanks, that's kind of what I was thinking, just wanted another opinion before I started getting dirty again ;-)

 

Hmm, that's confusing, cover off and no evidence of a problem. No marks on the cover, chain looks clean and feels taut with no marks on the chain either. Guess it's something a bit deeper :-(

Oh, only other rattle sound like that is Conrod bearings worn out

Yeah, am leaning that way. Thanks very much.

That sounds very like tappet rattle. Not like one tappet very bad but a larger number all a bit sloppy.

How many miles has it done? inside the cam cover while it doesn't look totally clean but it doesn't look to have thick crud (which would have been much worse) just a light layer.

Do you know anything about the service history and whether it is likely to be fitted with the right oil? Or is it more that the previous just gave up on maintenance sometime before he sold it and you really know nothing? The chain and the cam lobes look clean enough and  half expected to see the cam lobes looking pretty worn.
 

Yeah, it's all cleanish inside the engine, if not spotless. It's done 134k but has been a farm hack for a while, so service history is conspicuous by its absence.

Having looked into and having seen some other videos it looks like a big end shell has spun, and it's just enough for the piston to tap the head. I've ordered some shells for £18 and I'll see if it makes a difference. If not that's when the harder choices come in.

I bought it needing some suspension work but didn't hear the engine noise till half way home. End of the day for the £120 I paid I'm not going to lose out, just had hoped to get it mot'd quickly for a friend to use while she's back from Australia.

I have a Y reg hatch in the back garden that was going to be stripped for parts, and it might donate it's engine if it comes to it. Depends if I think its worth it.

I don't think it is bottom end, unless the oil pressure is low. Does the noise get worse under load (or even as it warms up)?  Is there any piston slap? If nether of those is true the fickle finger of fate is pointing towards the top end.

You should at least be able to tell where the noise is coming from with the old 'screwdriver stethoscope' trick (although, if oil pressure is disastrously low you might get a top end noise even though, eg, the main bearings are shot...presumably the oil pressure light does come on as you switch the ignition on, and goes out pretty rapidly once you crank the engine).

Does the noise change (get better, or worse, or even change in character) as the engine warms up?


 

Oil pressure light comes on and goes off as it should, and the engine is smooth and quiet under about 2000rpm. The noise does sound higher rather than lower, but it is difficult to pinpoint. There didn't seem to be any undue play in the tappets when the top was off, and under 2000 rpm its pretty much silent.

Doesn't seem to be a massive difference between hot & cold, and difficult to say on piston slap.

A few other people have said if the big end shells spin then flatten out they can give just enough rod play to allow the piston to tap the head at higher revs, but difficult to check unless sump is off. (Itself a challenge as the gearbox has to be moved off the engine slightly.) 

If the oil pressure is not low (and while it's not certain, but it seems likely that the oil pressure is at least within a workable range if the oil pressure light is behaving correctly) then I'd say I don't hear any evidence of a bottom end problem. Sure, bearings can spin but without any peculiar sounds under load or heavy 'bottom-endy' noses  then you are probably wasting your time looking in to the bottom end of the engine.

It would be a different thing if the oil pressure is tragically low, as the low oil pressure could be causing the tappet noise. You'd expect it to get worse as it warmed up and for the noise to change under load, if it were a bottom end problem.

The hydraulic tappets (not absolutely sure, but I think that's what you've got) should cope with moderate wear but maybe you've got immoderate wear or maybe the oil feed is blocked (although you'd expect cam lobe wear if there was oil starvation and you don't have that), or an accumulation of grit in the tappet mechanisms, or hopelessly wrong oil viscosity (although again you'd expect that to get worse with temperature).

If I was to guess, my guess would involve someone running the car on a totally incorrect oil that they just happened to have hanging around for some other application. Now  I don't really think that just changing the oil to the correct spec will cure things, but it may be an element.

If you have a compatible cylinder head on your Y reg, I'd be tempted to just swap the other cylinder head in, run some engine flush, and change the oil. Not guaranteed to work by any means, but given the level of effort involved in doing anything with the bottom end, I'd be tempted to try.
 

Thanks for that. Just trying to decide if it's worth it now :-)

I will buy it for £120

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hello i have identically the same breakdown that you have

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