Hi there. 

I have a 1.4 TDCi Fiesta.

Because I had the engine light on, recently I have had the EGR valve on the car cleaned and then replaced.

The engine light has now come on again...

I have accessed the "secret Menu" on the dash and found 2 DTC codes...

However , the format of the codes doesn't match the format of the codes listed on the internet. They don't begin with "P"... And I can't find what they mean.

The codes are dt5t60. (The 5 may be an S?)

And

Dt0CE1. The 0 may be a "D" I guess...

Does anyone know how to interpret these?

The car is running fine...but I will be taking it into the garage again soon to get it investigated again. 

I was also wondering about using Redex or similar as well as a tank of Shell v power diesel to "clean the system" to see if that helps.

Any advice welcome!

 

Car is 2009 TDCi 1.4 zetec

10 hours ago, ianf said:

I have accessed the "secret Menu" on the dash and found 2 DTC codes...

I have seen a couple of examples of codes from the dash display, that do not seem to mean anything.

Any standard OBD2 scanner will be able to read most engine DTC codes. I got a U480 for about £10.00 off Ebay, Dead easy to use.

A more comprehensive tool, able to diagnose a much greater range of faults (especially non-engine ones) would be Forscan, with a "modified" ELM327. Post here if you want more info.

Peter.

 

If I remember right,  modified ELM only works on the focus? 

1 hour ago, jbell said:

modified ELM only works on the focus

A modified ELM will work on any car, though the additional facility to scan the 2nd CAN bus (MS-CAN) will only be relevant to cars that have this feature.

The modification is a very simple mechanical switch that  can connect the ELM to the MS-CAN bus on pins 3 & 11 in the Diagnostic connector, instead of the main HS-CAN bus on pins 6 & 14.

The Fiesta 2008 on has this MS-CAN bus on pins 3 & 11, like the Mk2 Focus. I suspect it is common to quite a few later Fords.

Whether Forscan can use this feature on the Fiesta, I do not know, but the connection is there. Either way, it will still work on the main CAN bus.

Get a basic OBD2 reader, I have used mine countless times, also get an EGR blanking plate.

Thanks for the great replies!

I got a Bluetooth odbc scanner and it works great.

It's reporting a P0406 error. EGR fault. The EGR valve has been replaced recently so it must be something else....

Would blanking off the egr valve stop the engine light coming on?

I can clear the fault code via the odb reader. The light never comes back on when driving. The light only seems to reappear when I start the engine again. Does this give any clues as to the cause?

The car seems to be running fine...

 

Cheers.

 

3 hours ago, ianf said:

Would blanking off the egr valve stop the engine light coming on?

I can clear the fault code via the odb reader. The light never comes back on when driving.

I have had problems with my EGR valve, all electrical in the actuator part. When it was malfunctioning, it only lit the light at or soon after engine start, same as yours. Blanking the valve made no difference to the light coming on. On some cars, blanking makes the light come on anyway, as the car senses & checks the flow. Blanking did improve drive-ability when it was misbehaving.

One cause of that DTC (P0406) is electrical problems in the EGR, or the wiring & connectors. It suggests the sensor signal is out of range, could be the valve is jammed open, but more likely a bad connection in the sensor, or sensor ground wires.

Backprobing the valve connector, which is sticking a needle down inside the connector wire entries to make contact with the connector pins might reveal a fault, if that is possible. Testing the EGR on a bench with a variable PSU and a multimeter is quite easy IF you can remove it, and have the PSU & meter.

Testing the EGR pins to determine the layout, and then testing the connector wires, at least the sensor ground & power wires, would be possible. Typical EGR wiring is attached, though this is from the 1.6TDCI, and the pinout may be different.

The motor will have very low resistance, and the sensor pot is typically between 1kohm and 10kohm. If you are not familiar with electrical testing, do you know a local friend who is?

If it is not an electrical problem in the valve, then there are quite a few possibilities. I suspect the engine estimates EGR flow by comparing the MAF flowrate (in the air intake after the filter) with computed air flow from the MAP sensor (Manifold pressure), intake temperature and rpm. The difference should be the EGR flow. So errors in the MAF, in the MAP, or intake temperature sensor could give this DTC.

On the 1.6TDCI, there are also one or two other valves in the egr circuit: A throttle valve (aka anti-shudder valve), and an intercooler bypass valve. The 1.4TDCI (DV4) in the same family as the 1.6TDCI (DV6). If the EGR flow is restricted, the valve will have to open more than expected, leading to this DTC.

Peter.

 

Thanks for the VERY detailed reply!

I am pretty much "Joe Public" when it comes to cars, so I will pass this information on to my usual mechanic.

 

Many, many thanks!

I have an update on my problem re. engine light coming on (code P0406).

While driving the other day, the "powertrain" light and engine light came on whilst I was doing 50-60 MPH and the engine went into "limp mode", losing power.

Things went back to normal and then it happened again shortly afterwards...

I think (?) the ABS light also came on, but that might just be my imagination...

I have driven the car a few times since and the car performs normally.

Also -

Using my OBD reader, I have been doing some more tests...

I have noticed that when I clear the error code, the engine light goes off.

It stays off until the third time I start the engine , when the engine light re-appears.

I tested this several times with the car parked on the drive yesterday.

It was consistent (light comes on the third time I start the car after clearing the code), except for one occasion when it came on only after the 4th start.

Does this give any further clues as to what may actually be wrong?

I will be taking the car into the garage I use in the next few days - it will be useful to pass oin any relevant info re what might be wrong...

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, ianf said:

It was consistent (light comes on the third time I start the car after clearing the code), except for one occasion when it came on only after the 4th start.

Hi,

That is normal for EGR and many other errors. If you do a scan after 1 or 2 starts (light not yet on), you should see a pending P0406 DTC. Then on the next time it clocks up the error, it will light the EML.

It was the same when I had EGR problems. On my car I can hear the EGR being tested when the engine is turned off. So I think the code was actually appearing at switch off, but could only be read with the scanner, or seen on the EML, on the next start. Hence 3 starts for the two DTCs.

The 4th start occasion suggests the problem is still a bit intermittent.

The multiple light problem does not seem to be connected to the egr. Was the Powertrain light the one with an ! in a circle or cog? That is called engine systems lamp on the Focus, and often indicates a communications problem between electronic modules. Typically in the CAN bus that links the main modules (like pcm, ABS & IC or Instrument Cluster). I had this on the Focus, it turned out to be the CAN bus connections on the IC pcb. But that is a classic Focus (2006) problem, I don't think Fiesta has that particular foible.

It may be a one off, but if it happens again, try to do a scan as soon as possible, there may be some Uxxxx DTCs, that indicate comms errors. But these tend to be automatically cleared quite quickly, so a later scan may not show anything.

 

The saga continues!

 

Hurray! The p0406 EGR issue was cleared up last week. It was an EGR wiring issue.

However, yesterday the car lost power and went into "limp mode'.

The engine light is now on again....

Using the OBD reader, the code showing now is P0102, which I understand is related to the Mass Air Flow (MAF) (sensor).

The car is booked to go back in the garage on Wednesday.

Is there anything I can do in the meantime to check connections etc?

Can anyone tell me where the MAF sensor is on the 1.4 TDCi engine?

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, ianf said:

Can anyone tell me where the MAF sensor is on the 1.4 TDCi engine?

It is usually on the outlet pipe from the air filter housing (air box).

Before replacing it, there are several things to check:

The connector to it, & wiring.

Whether the MAF sensor inside the pipe is contaminated with oil or dirt. It can be cleaned (very gently) with alchohol (eg maeths) if needed.

The hoses from turbo to intercooler & intercooler to inlet manifold, and damage to the intercooler. Leaks in the air intake system can cause wrong MAF reading.

The MAP sensor. This reading is used a to compute an air flow which can be compared to the MAF, and if it is wrong, or there is a leak in its connection, the MAF can get the blame.

The EGR valve: If jammed or blocked, this can upset the air flow readings.

if obvious stuff like split hoses & dirt or bad connections is eliminated, then a diagnostic system that can obtain actual readings from the MAF & MAP etc, would help. Ford IDS (garage) & Forscan (diy) are two examples.

The MAF can be quite expensive, depending on model year, so should not really be replaced without additional tests. The DTCs are a good guide, but not 100% reliable.

 

Just unplug the MAF and see how it drives - it should drop onto a fixed fueling map and ignore the MAF reading, it might just need a clean, mine throws a p0102 code but thats because I am running an induction kit and the airflow is much much higher than the stock expected reading.

Another - and hopefully final update....

The car was due to go into the garage on Tuesday night this week.

Came to move it off the drive and couldnt get enough power to reverse off slightly sloped drive...

I called out the RAC who towed the car away the next morning.

Today - the fault wa found at the garage to be a corroded connector plug...

Took a lot of finding...

Car seems fine now - no error codes and running as well as ever.

Will see how it goes, but fingers very much crossed.!!!

Edited October 7, 20169 yr by ianf
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