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Eddie78

2010 1.6tdci focus 5 days 4 faults

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Hi Guys n Gals

I have bought a 2010 focus 1.6tdci one owner full service history, I have only owned it for 5 days and have had the engine management light on 4 times now.

Its the same 2 fault codes that get thrown up, clear the codes light goes out etc.... The light has come on in the same circumstances started from cold ran about 5 mins as I accelerate up to speed the light comes on and I think there is a ever so slight exhaust smel through the heater vents

The codes are

P2297- O2Sensor Out of Range During Deceleration Bank1, Sensor1
- Present
P2002- Diesel Particulate filter Efficiency Below Threshold
- Intermittent
 

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Just popped the engine cover off for a quick look see and was greeted with a wet injector which explains the diesel smell in the cabin and hopefully explains the engine management light

20170110_182153.jpg

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on my 2007 fiesta 1.6tdci I had a problem a few times with injectors leaking like this causing burning diesel smell in car. sometimes accompanied by a chuffing sound as the compression pushes past the copper injector seal at bas of injector.  However, it never affected they way the car drove, nor caused any errors / lights.

In my case I did the retaining bolts up a bit tighter each time which cured it for quite a few thousand miles. However, don't blame me if you snap bolt or strip thread. The proper way is remove injector and replace copper seal at base, but I did not want the hassle of doing that.

Mine was twin cam 16 valve, I do not know if your is same or the single cam 8 valve version which might not have same injector fixings. (the 1560cc tdci engine comes in twin cam 16v and single cam 8v)

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On 1/10/2017 at 4:43 PM, Eddie78 said:

Hi Guys n Gals

I have bought a 2010 focus 1.6tdci one owner full service history, I have only owned it for 5 days and have had the engine management light on 4 times now.

Its the same 2 fault codes that get thrown up, clear the codes light goes out etc.... The light has come on in the same circumstances started from cold ran about 5 mins as I accelerate up to speed the light comes on and I think there is a ever so slight exhaust smel through the heater vents

The codes are

P2297- O2Sensor Out of Range During Deceleration Bank1, Sensor1
- Present
P2002- Diesel Particulate filter Efficiency Below Threshold
- Intermittent
 

Get it back to the place you bought it from. 5 days and you've got all this going on? Naaaa. They can fix that! Cheeky monkeys!

Sales of goods act might be a good one to review as well. They hate that being batted around.

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1 minute ago, DJ_Andy_M said:

Get it back to the place you bought it from. 5 days and you've got all this going on? Naaaa. They can fix that! Cheeky monkeys!

Sales of goods act might be a good one to review as well. They hate that being batted around.

I fully agree I am more than capable of repairing the car myself but sod that they can stump the bill, legally within the first 30 days they can repair/refund/replace the car

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5 minutes ago, Eddie78 said:

I fully agree I am more than capable of repairing the car myself but sod that they can stump the bill, legally within the first 30 days they can repair/refund/replace the car

100%. The 1.6tdci in the MK2 needs to be looked after like a small child anyway (6000 mile oil changes, check injector seals), but to buy it with these issues and not be told about them.

Get it back to them, and let us know what happens.

How many miles has it done? I'm wondering if that O2 sensor is in the DPF. Could be a simple replacement of the sensor but it could also mean a new DPF.

Edit: the DPF error is a discrepancy in readings between two or more sensors in the DPF so they could well be related to each other.

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no way would i buy a focus 1.6tdci with 80k on it.

even if running perfectly at the time of purchase , cambelt , pdf & egr valve are all fast approaching on the horizon for replacement , and are all £400+ jobs.

not to mention the injector leaks and the need for 6k oil changes.

i'd consider swopping vehical if im being truthful and it sounds like the previous owner off loaded the car at just the right time before the big bills came.

that engine was always a complete lemon in fords line up.

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1 hour ago, Eddie78 said:

The car has 80k on the clocks

That car may have the cDPF (coated or catalytic DPF) as opposed to the Eolys fluid version. The cDPF is reckoned to last up to 120k miles, compared to 80k for the older DPF, if I recall. And at 13k miles a year, it should have had enough use to keep the DPF in reasonable shape, hopefully with a good few motorway / dual carriageway runs. So it may just be a sensor problem or something.

The cDPF change was about December 2009, though only for Euro5 cars, so both types were supplied.

Around 2011, the DV6 was heavily re-designed as an 8 valve SOHC engine. This later variant seems to have a much better reputation than the 16 valve DV6. It might be worth checking which variant yours is, though it should be the older one.

"Complete lemon" may be just a little harsh, it does have some plus points like good economy, but the frequent oil change warning should be heeded, most long term DV6 owners go by it. There must be a huge number of those DV6 engines out there, some of which may have given good service for many years. We mostly hear about the bad ones.

But if it is the older DPF, and will need replacing shortly, then a swap, or some tough negotiation, may be in order. Cleaning DPFs is claimed to be possible, but I have yet to hear of any long term success from this. Most cleaning services are just rubbish. Ash can only be washed out by some water or solvent process. "Deep cleans" and kiln cleans are useless.

 

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8 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

That car may have the cDPF (coated or catalytic DPF) as opposed to the Eolys fluid version. The cDPF is reckoned to last up to 120k miles, compared to 80k for the older DPF, if I recall. And at 13k miles a year, it should have had enough use to keep the DPF in reasonable shape, hopefully with a good few motorway / dual carriageway runs. So it may just be a sensor problem or something.

The problem there is a simple sensor fault, left unchecked, can quickly allow more soot build up than you could ever hope to passively regen away.  It could also be that some of that high mileage was done round town by a courier or a carer doing constant stop start traffic which puts a lot of miles on but doesn't do the DPF any favours.  You can't really put a mileage on DPFs because of too many variables. :sad: 

 

The O2 sensor fault is an interesting one, although some diesels use a wideband lambda, the Focus system with the Eolys DPF definitely doesn't have one.  Can anyone confirm if the cDPF does? 

 

Also the ONLY benefit of the 16v DV6 is the £30 tax, I haven't found another benefit with it so far, economy certainly isn't one of it's strong points! :laugh:  Having owned one over 2 years and worked on a few, I'd agree with people saying give the car back and get another. 

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3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

O2 sensor fault is an interesting one, although some diesels use a wideband lambda, the Focus system with the Eolys DPF definitely doesn't have one.  Can anyone confirm if the cDPF does? 

The wiring diagram for the original DV6 shows no lambda sensor although confusingly it does give cDPF as an option, with two exhaust temp sensors for cDPF. The diagram for the DV6T (Stage 5) does show a Lambda (heated O2) sensor.

So all is unclear as usual, but it certainly is a later option to have the O2 sensor.

I certainly agree that DPF problems need to be diagnosed & sorted asap, before expensive damage is done! I have seen several threads where after a problem with the Eolys system (usually empty, probably due to not being re-filled properly), although fixed, the DPF never really recovers, and ends up being replaced, cleaned, or with just scrapping the car.

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14 hours ago, biff55 said:

no way would i buy a focus 1.6tdci with 80k on it.

even if running perfectly at the time of purchase , cambelt , pdf & egr valve are all fast approaching on the horizon for replacement , and are all £400+ jobs.

not to mention the injector leaks and the need for 6k oil changes.

i'd consider swopping vehical if im being truthful and it sounds like the previous owner off loaded the car at just the right time before the big bills came.

that engine was always a complete lemon in fords line up.

Yeah... at 88K mine had the injector seal failure and the engine ran way, along with constant DPF issues even with a filled eloys tank.

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as someone said above, we hear more about the bad experiences than the good ones. My 2007 fiesta 1.6tcdi twin cam 16v was brilliant and still is. Bought at 1,600 miles, sold to my brother at 146k miles, now just over 150k miles. It has been superb, excellent power/torque/mpg.  No turbo problems ever. Oil changed every 15k with Castrol magnetic and genuine ford filter.  cam belt changed 115k miles. air filter and fuel filter changed at 120k miles . injectors tightened a few times to stop leaking.

I'm sure some people will remark on me leaving it 15k between oil changes as I know that is longer than ford say. 

 But I am speaking up and saying that I found this engine to be superb and I never regreted having that car with that engine.

(I acknowledge that mine did not a dpf in it as Fiestas did not have dpfs that early)

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33 minutes ago, isetta said:

as someone said above, we hear more about the bad experiences than the good ones.

 

I'd go along with that - my 1.6TDCi has just over 120k miles now and still going as strong as it ever has (touch wood).  Some money spent on timing belt, sorting out the DPF and EGR but otherwise nearly faultless in the nearly 9 years I have had it - long may it last.

 

 

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I get fairly good economy out of mine, although it is a bit lower now cause of the cold weather.  I am averaging around 58 mpg at the moment.   So in my experience fuel economy is a plus point of this engine.  I have had no turbo or injector problems with the car so far. Have it two years and there are currently 126000 miles on the clock.  Have to probably look at getting the dpf replaced shortly as it still has the original one.  Definitely not looking forward to that but has to be done sooner rather than later.  

Saying all that bring it back if its not right.  

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Just some updates car does indeed have a o2/lambda sensors. the dealer will remain nameless at the mo but after a week long battle it looks they have finally come good, after the finance company leant on them a little bit, they are replacing the dpf, o2 sensor, and injector seals, I really like the car it drives well more than enough power for a daily and happy with the mpg, ( I did a 172mile round trip brimmed the tank before and after and she only used £14:80).

The only downside is I have been given a Fiat Punto  as a courtesy car and its ***** awful the steering wheel is more like a  tiller doesnt so much steer as guide the car in the rough direction, the accelerator is nothing more than a foot rest, I have sat on more comfortable chuch pews. after driving it home I was seriously considering self harming.

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Well the saga continues the whilst driving the courtesy car i got pulled by the police, So I am stood on the hard shoulder of the A186 45miles from home me and the wife on our way to York for a weekend away, The police threatening to sieze the car on the spot. The courtesy car had not been taxed since May last year the officer said if a vehicle was been used on the public highway and had not been taxed for 2months and 1 day they are supposed to be siezed on the spot, fantastic all need. so after several phone calls to the dealer and the police chief they where happy it was a courtesy car and allowed me on my way. and not one phone call from the dealer to appolgise to me or to say the vehicle is now taxed etc...

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Well apparently the garage think they have fixed the car and the mechanic is going to do a bit of driving to make sure, we shall see be interesting to see how many miles it has clocked up and the av mpg will give a good idea if they have spanked the a$$ of it, regardless I will be taking the delphi and plugging it in before it goes anywhere and having a good look under the bonnet I am just not a very trusting person, I had marked various bits on the engine just to see what has been to bits etc....

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It's very sad when you feel that you have to "snoop" on the people you should be able to trust with your car and investment but sadly, it's part of the joy of using many garages (aka part changers) when you take your pride and joy in for repair or rectification. I had to drill 2 tiny holes in a rear bumper assembly on a Mitsubishi when the garage told me it would cost over a grand for a new one plus painting. When I got the car back the 2 tiny holes were still there. They had just filled it and bogged it up with glass fibre and resprayed it! Did manage to get a brand new bumper, respray and compensation after complaining bitterly but don't trust any  garage again. You're better off doing it yourself if you can or find someone you can trust!

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Ive never used a garage before for repairs always done the work myself, the only reason this time because of the issues Ive had after only 30miles of ownership and I thought sod it they can foot the bill. Ive only used garages for MOTs (hell I even change my own tyres with a homemade bead breaker lol) one garage I used to use for MOTs couldnt even get that right they MOTd a matiz I had (for pizza delivery) the following day the bottom ball joint fell out, they then MOTd my vec cdti 1 week later a brake pipe bust whilst I towing the caravan that was fun

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5 hours ago, Eddie78 said:

I will be taking the delphi and plugging it in before it goes anywhere and having a good look under the bonnet I am just not a very trusting person, I had marked various bits on the engine just to see what has been to bits etc...

I absolutely do not blame you there. If a garage can not remember to tax a courtesy car (for 7 months ohmy.png), and sold a car that it is likely they knew had some problems, then they are really asking to be dis-trusted!

I have a few bad experiences. One at a garage I knew had a dodgy reputation, but I had foolishly bought the car there, and it was a warranty radiator replacement.

I have heard some really bad tales on this site. One car had the ABS light constantly coming on, after a bearing replacement. Repeated garage visits just made it worse, and wrecked another bearing, which they had to replace, if I recall. Then suddenly they fixed it. The light was out. Except the owner immediately scanned the car, the faults were still there. On investigation, the Instrument Cluster had been tampered with to physically extinguish the light. The ABS was still not functioning!

Some owners have been leaving the dashcam in secret record mode!

Not all garages are bad, some are really good, but finding one of those is hard. And even then they can have an off day, or have a change of staff and bring in a dud mechanic. I try to do as much as I can, but lack of a decent size, usable garage is a problem. I can not do much work like that outside in Winter.

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Well got a call from the dealer saying the was 100% fixed ( only took 8days) well they are a pack of lying bar stewards went to dealership to collect car, asked them what parts and work had been done there was "no new parts needed all we needed to do was clear the codes and do a forced regen" so I asked about the leaking injector " our mechanic believes the injector is not leaking" was told the car has been on a 200mile test drive ( I took a photo of speedo when I dropped the car off they have only done 8miles)

they said I can leave the car longer so the mechanic can look at the injector again. ( I dont think so you have had your chance)

so the up shot is they have done no work to the car other than clear stored codes and a forced regen so about 40mins work that took 8days.

I drove the car home in a foul mood got 4 miles engine light on again for f%%ks sake.

check fault codes when I got home plugged it in and instead of the 2 fault codes I now have 3 codes marvelous.

so I still have the

P2297- O2Sensor Out of Range During Deceleration Bank1, Sensor1...   code will come on when driving and if you do a static rev the code comes on doesnt put MIL on

P2002- Diesel Particulate filter Efficiency Below Threshold ...                    code only comes on when accelerating  up to speed puts MIL on

the new code

P244A- Particle filter differential pressure sensor circuit; low
 
The injector the mechanics believes is not leaking
20170110_182153.jpg
 

 

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2 hours ago, Eddie78 said:

P244A- Particle filter differential pressure sensor circuit; low

That's an odd one. DP too low. Most likely problem is the DP hoses, could even be they have been swapped over. Or left off, blocked or leaking.

In fact all three codes just could be DP hose problems. A leaking or detached hose could give readings too low at times, and too high (P2002) at other times. Air entering the exhaust could give the O2 sensor error.

Probably too much to hope for, but it is worth a very good look.

I am sad to hear about the useless garage, they seem to be even worse than anyone could have expected or believed. Name & Shame ?

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Yeah will have a good look this weekend the P244A has only started since they have had the car. I need to do the injector seals anyways and will check all hose work. do you have a diagram of the hose connections incase they have been swaping them about

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1 hour ago, Eddie78 said:

do you have a diagram of the hose connections incase they have been swaping them about

'Fraid not!

But I have looked at some photos of a sensor that is claimed to be for a 2010, 1.6TDCI. It shows the port on the connector side marked as "REF", and on the other side as "HI". I had to enhance the images quite a bit to get this!

The Hi port will go to the upstream (Engine) end of the DPF, and Ref to the downstream (exhaust) end.

The Ref port looks smaller than the Hi port.

DPF3A.JPG

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