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Cr-Box Tuning Plug In Box...anyone Got One?i


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#16 bladeage

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:17 PM

no dmf on my car it is an old shape 2007 duratorque.....what is smf????

 

I am kind of being a bit suspicious at the moment so I welcome any reteric or skepticism  etc regarding tuning boxes and what problems they may cause, it is good to discuss experiences when using different products that are available.

 

At the moment I can only report back what I find with this modification over time; I am not expecting the 20% better efficiency claim and to be honest after the power hike I have now I will be happy with 10% less fuel economy, my own usage of this car is commuting down dual carriageway for 12 miles each way and stop and squirt at weekends (I do m/bikes for fun!), and was only really looking for a bit more bite in 3rd,4th,5th gears which I now deffo have !

I owned a mondi estate titanium x Black a while ago which was 150 bhp and now this car seems to be acting in the same manner as that did.......torque steer and very clean and quick to pull through the box...but a bit quicker! I can only say after the 20 miles this has been fitted that I am 100% happy that the claims so far are bang on the mark and I could not find any niggles whatsoever.....lets see what a couple of weeks commuting does?........big grin....much power! B)



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#17 bladeage

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

Sounds like a bargain at £59

Like you said m8, it was always worth the punt, took your word for it and I am very impressed up to now with what I have driven today.

....see how it goes eh!  ;)  (much better! :D )



#18 bladeage

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 10:05 PM

have you got a DMF or SMF on your car?

Hi m8,

Sorry I misunderstood your post completely, very sorry! (skipping between sites!), I have got a DMF on my Mondi as far as I know!

 

The car has 106k up now and is running great apart from the rattle I have from the bottom pulley...must do that soon!



#19 stooge75

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:13 AM

Hi m8,
Sorry I misunderstood your post completely, very sorry! (skipping between sites!), I have got a DMF on my Mondi as far as I know!
 
The car has 106k up now and is running great apart from the rattle I have from the bottom pulley...must do that soon!

I changed my crankshaft pulley yesterday(10 min job with the laser tensioner tool plus my impact gun. But it hasnt cured rattle. Im away to buy an INA alternator clutch pulley & upgrade it.
Done my egr as well,and it was in sorry state.was too cold to attempt inlet manifold so might do that today

#20 bladeage

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

Ok chaps,

 

Before I set off from work today I reset the economy counter (real time mpg readout).

 

My economy display which I have reset a few times on my commute to work usually read 45 mpg, if I give it a bit of right foot this drops to 44 mpg.

 

The display is now showing 49 - 51 mpg, that is an approximate 10% gain in economy on my commute, I am betting that it will show a 20% increase on the motorway.

 

Excellent I think! 



#21 stooge75

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:00 PM

Well sounds good but our mk3's dont have real' time read-out,only overall average. If you reset it just as you are on mway etc,it wont really be a true reading,because of no traffic-lights,stopping,queueing etc. i know what youre saying though,& sounds good i admit.
I did same thing today-after cleaning egr,renewing oil cooler stat& water stat,i took it for drive up motorway & reset mpg readout. Normally it'll sit at 47/48 overall but as i reset it on motorway,by time i got home it was reading 56.something. So without any tuning box,i had a 16%(?) increase.
See what i mean?
Its back down to 48.1 after driving about city centre for an hour tonight.
Another thing,some tuning boxes ive heard (but cant see how its possible),fool the mpg readout andmake a false reading. But i cant see how thatd occur as its only having an affect on fuel delivery and not the guts of the ecu etc. mmmmm

#22 FOCA

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:21 PM

Well sounds good but .......
Another thing,some tuning boxes ive heard (but cant see how its possible),fool the mpg readout andmake a false reading. But i cant see how thatd occur as its only having an affect on fuel delivery and not the guts of the ecu etc. mmmmm

Well scince you asked-

 

Some tuning boxes increase the fuel pressure of the common rail - this means there can be (is) more fuel squirted into the engine than the ECU "thinks" there is so the calculations the ECU makes can often be more optomistic (instant and/or avarage) than without the tuning box (depends on the type/ design of tuning box)

 

So the ECU is only as accurate as the information supplied to it

 

The MPG readout may be inaccurate anyway and you need to do traditional "brim to brim vs miles" checking of the MPG

 

Nevertheless the tuning box often improves the >>actual<<  MPG (on a turbo-diesel) because the extra torque means less throttle is required and the car pulls better up hills or in a higher gear etc  



#23 bladeage

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:14 PM

Well scince you asked-

 

Some tuning boxes increase the fuel pressure of the common rail - this means there can be (is) more fuel squirted into the engine than the ECU "thinks" there is so the calculations the ECU makes can often be more optomistic (instant and/or avarage) than without the tuning box (depends on the type/ design of tuning box)

 

So the ECU is only as accurate as the information supplied to it

 

The MPG readout may be inaccurate anyway and you need to do traditional "brim to brim vs miles" checking of the MPG

 

Nevertheless the tuning box often improves the >>actual<<  MPG (on a turbo-diesel) because the extra torque means less throttle is required and the car pulls better up hills or in a higher gear etc  

....lol.....it really was only ever going to be a bonus if the car was better on fuel, I have got what I originally set out for and that was a simple power hike in the higher gears, never the less I will monitor the fuel consumption closely and report back.......still very impressed with the extra power/torque !



#24 stooge75

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

Interesting......
But the ECU knows how much fuel is being used as the tuning box is telling it how much fuel to inject.(well,in a sense). Tuning boxes are only really kidding the engine through fooling the ECU (by saying its cold outside,increase fuel).
So therefore,the ECU knows how much fuel's being injected(but doesnt know its actually a lot warmer than the tuning-box is telling it).
Thats why tuning-boxes arent good in long-run for fuel-pumps,injectors,cylinders,turbo's etc,as the engines running too rich.
Getting more torque thru lying to the ecu,i get,but is the extra mpg/torque worth it at the expense of the engine going through quite a fair bit of 'over-everything'.
Thats why a remap on a some cars(where the turbo boost isnt physically able to be increased) isn't the brightest idea for engines. The cylinders run hotter,so does virtually everything else(and richer);as they still have the same amount of boost from turbo(as its non-adjustable), but increased fuel input.
Im terrible at remembering things & have forgotton where i was goin with this lol

#25 FOCA

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:04 AM

Interesting......
But the ECU knows how much fuel is being used as the tuning box is telling it how much fuel to inject.(well,in a sense). Tuning boxes are only really kidding the engine through fooling the ECU (by saying its cold outside,increase fuel).
So therefore,the ECU knows how much fuel's being injected(but doesnt know its actually a lot warmer than the tuning-box is telling it).
Thats why tuning-boxes arent good in long-run for fuel-pumps,injectors,cylinders,turbo's etc,as the engines running too rich.
Getting more torque thru lying to the ecu,i get,but is the extra mpg/torque worth it at the expense of the engine going through quite a fair bit of 'over-everything'.
Thats why a remap on a some cars(where the turbo boost isnt physically able to be increased) isn't the brightest idea for engines. The cylinders run hotter,so does virtually everything else(and richer);as they still have the same amount of boost from turbo(as its non-adjustable), but increased fuel input.
Im terrible at remembering things & have forgotton where i was goin with this lol

Mostly, this is nonsense - or little bits of information about completely different types of tuning boxes and forum "rumours" mixed together

 

Tuning box type # 1 - IAT tuning box The signal from the Intake Air Temprature sensor is modified so that the ECU "thinks" it is cold, (or colder than it is) and makes the engine run richer, simple/ works well (to an extent) with early petrol NA or turbocharged non cat cars, can contaminate cats on modern petrol cars with cats, works on diesels/ turbodiesels but there are better techniques - this is the only type of box where temprature is part of the control (ie - "its cold outside - increase fuel") - this may be a resistor of the correct value

 

Tuning box type # 2 Diesel common rail pressure boost type tuning box - Connects between the common rail pressure sensor and ECU, increases fuel pressure by modifiing the sensor signal so it reads LOWER than it actually is, ECU automatically compensates, so a larger amount of fuel is injected per cycle, exept the ECU "thinks" the same amount of fuel was injected as before the tuning box was added

 

Tuning box type #3 MAF sensor type- In a nutshell the MAF sensor measures the amount of air going into the engine, although it may be pressure and temprature compensated its function is to measure the amount of air (Mass Air Flow) -

 

(turbo-diesel)The tuning box connects between the MAF sensor and the ECU, the signal is modified so that the MAF is measuring more air than it actually is, the ECU squirts more diesel in to compensate, this can produce a  with a significant power and torque gain as the extra fuel boosts the energy in the turbine, which has a knock-on effect on the compressor, although peak boost pressure is controlled by the actuator (so the absolute peak boost pressure is theoretically the same as before) the boost comes in sooner, and the turbo spools quicker, with more boost across the entire powerband >>so the boost is changed INDIRECTLY with this type of tuning box.

 

Tuning box type #4 - Digital microprossesor multi channel programmable tuning box with multiple maps and direct control of the electronic actuator. the title says it all really, this is a realatively sophisticated box, effectively a second ECU, takes over several sensor signals, etc  this type has direct control of the turbo boost pressure, (engines with electronic actuators, obviously)

 

There are many different variations of these, including, "passive" resistor boxes, active analog boxes, digital, digital programmable with multiple maps, multi- channel digital etc etc

 

My (turbodiesel) car runs very cool (about 75degrees) if it ran hotter i would be happier (and i would get a better MPG too, apparently)

 

There is a school of thought that says increasing the power+ torque of an engine (ie- fitting a tuning box) REDUCES the stress on the engine, as it does  not have to be worked so hard, to achieve the same result              



#26 bladeage

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:21 PM

Excellent post FOCA !

 

I for one I did not realize there were so many different ways and outcomes that tuning boxes offer!

 

I guess I have one of the cheaper ones (£59) and it does fit to the common rail sensor, I do know it is a digital one as I specifically asked the question as per your prompt to do so.

I have noticed today that because of the extra power/torque when I am changing up then when I get into fifth and eventually sixth on occasion then I seem to need less throttle to keep it at that speed.....I guess what I am saying is my foot is not pressed down nearly as much when I get into the upper gears and infact in fifth gear now on a flat road my foot is hardly pressing the accelerator and now only needs a very slight press to overtake etc.

 

I did notice something slightly different this morning though and that was the sound of the injectors were a bit louder, perhaps they sounded a little bit more clattery (the tdci noise) however 2 miles down the road when warmed up properly everything sounded normal again, maybe the injectors dont like the extra fuel until warm?? Are the injectors in the 150bhp version the same as the 130bhp? p.s. it was awesomely freezing cold this morning so it could have been just that!?

 

cheers :)



#27 Huddersfielder

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

I'll be honest I took mine off my focus last week purely because of the extra noise the injectors made when started. Was worried about the extra load the injectors were under, now I don't know what to do for the best!! Try again or sell the box!

#28 Huddersfielder

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

Oh and it was very cold too -3 degrees...

#29 bladeage

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 08:51 PM

Thanks for the info m8, it seems I was not imagining the clatter then!

 

It maybe that the extra fuel on a cold start up requires more air than the air filter is allowing; I have done some thinking and think that I am going to remove the air filter for a couple of days and see if there is any improvement in the noise on a cold start up, it could be the old problem of.....how do I get more air into the tight space I am now flooding with fuel!??

 

Like I said, when my engine is warm the clatter almost vanishes totally so I am guessing that the ecu when being fooled by the piggy back when the engine is stone cold maybe isnt able to compensate properly for the fuel being added, therefore possibly a messed up ignition map is happening until the ecu recognizes a temperature variant or air flow it is familiar with when the engine and sensors are warm>????

Sorry, I am not a mechanic/engineer but do like to get involved in stuff like this.....lol....twin carbs and two litres were always much easier to fathom!

I am sure FOCA  will slowly shed some light! :D



#30 FOCA

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 10:19 PM

No pressure LOL - the Ecu adds a bit of extra fuel for cold starting which is "superimposed" on the extra fuel the tuning box adds, there may be a bit more smoke when you start as well

 

The clatter may sound a bit taxi/ transit - like but its ok, unlikely to do any harm - if there is a lot of smoke when you start it up and or when you "boot" it it may be worth talking to/ discussing this with your tuning box suppliers to try different settings maps etc/ or have it reprogrammed

 

if the clatter goes away/ settles down soon after starting i think it should be ok, this may not happen in the summer

 

A long time ago i ruined a metro turbo engine by experimenting with no filters,(wore out the bores with grit/ sand) i would never run a car on the road without an effective air filter now

 

Try a new, pattern filter every 6 months, a K&N pipercross panel filter,  should run a bit better with the tuning box fitted, i cannot guarantee the "rattling" will stop (in cold weather, anyway) 

 

Also try ressetting the ECU (if you have not already/ if you change somthing - tuning box/ filter etc) it can make a big difference

 

Does the "rattling" happen when you start the engine (without using throttle) or when you 1st pull away (1st time you open the throttle in gear with the clutch up ) ?     



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