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Engine Coolant In Spark Plugs - Have 2 Different Opinions As To What Is Wrong

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#31 wase16ll

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:29 PM

totally agree mate, but if it turns out he detected a problem from head test, you then have a reason for removing cam cover...

from what we're told, it was just a visual diag, in which case, your probably right, have come across porous cyl heads before but in this case seems highly unlikely...

all i ask of anyone...dont go slaughtering the mechanic till you have all the facts,

 

when i get calls like this, its only ever going to end badly,

 

ill spend as much time as necessary to show/explain what im doing/done, but there comes a point when i just walk away and leave them to sort elsewhere, when  the customer refuses to accept what you say/show all because somebody in the pub or www has told them i dont know what im doing even though they have never so much as looked at the motor.

 

other favourite one is "RAC/AA  man said it was this,"

so many people refuse to believe when i tell them they were wrong, god knows why???...couple of times even got to the point where, ok, i'll do what the breakdown says...so long as your prepared to pay the full cost of this unecessary work as well as the cost of fixing the real problem....love the sheepish looks when its done and dusted



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#32 FOCA

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 09:39 PM

either way, the head has to come off

,

in my opinion, the only way water can enter the recesses is via a cracked head or blown gasket...not a core plug

 

 

s

Agreed, its the head or the head gasket, i can't see how core plugs could cause coolant in the combustion chamber, core plugs are on the outside of the block (on any engine im aware of)   



#33 wase16ll

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Posted 15 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

all true FOCA, but now been established its not the head bolts snapped but the cam cover, so as far as we know, the coolant was only sitting in spark plugs not the chambers.



#34 artscot79

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:13 AM

DSCF08821.JPG

 

an example of a leaking core plug thats filled the plug area up with coolant and been boiled off from engine heat the core plug fills in the hole created from casting the block the slightest hairline crack and this is the result ive seen more focis with this and barely any with a head gasket issue ford know about it so will always do the plugs first before going any further with a diagnosis

the symptoms will be an intermittent missfire which becomes worse over time how can coolant get in the recess because the core plug is blocking the hole right above the coolant channel underneath

the engine light will show and there will be a loss in power

coolant will go down with no visible leaks from the pump

car will run rough

commonly misdiagnosed as a failed or leaking head gasket

 

cause is from water leaking past the driver side washer jet seal leaking directly into the no1 spark plug well filling up wells 1 and 2 and submerging the exposed core plug visible by pulling the spark plug lead out causing the spark plugs over time to rust in place and corrosion to the core plug as heat and pressure builds in the engine over a long period of time the core plug will split or crack releasing coolant from the coolant passageways into the spark plug housing causing a slight miss or hesitation to become more severe in turn this short from the spark plug to the lead will now feed back to the coil pack therefore its advised that leads plugs and coil pack are replaced and any eml codes cleared first ford have new improved washer jets with a larger seal to prevent water getting into the plug wells but it doesnt work so silicone grease or silicone is needed when fitting new washer jets to prevent it occuring again most common on the 1.6 petrol focus 2004-20011



#35 CdnSarah

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:39 AM

Photos!  Arts, that is exactly what my car looks like.  And it's the 3 little bolts that hold the cover in place over top of that which have snapped.

 

I've tried adding some photos of my engine.  You'll have to bear with me though, as it's the first time I've tried this.  https://www.dropbox....ap6i/CCtpLYoJ_N



#36 artscot79

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:05 AM

Those bolts can be removed using a special bit an eezy out since they arent overly tight normally as i said core plugs its the leaky washer jets thats started it all remove them and get newer ones they come with a large rubber washer silicone the washer to the jet and let them dry then on the underside silicone them to the bonnet

#37 artscot79

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 11:26 AM

By the look of it hes overtightened the bolts they arent in tight enough to snap whilst undoing them but easy to snap tightening them up

#38 CdnSarah

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 08:45 PM

Update!

 

Second mechanic tested the head and, as expected, there are no problems.

 

But the car lasted a week before the problem recurred.  Second mechanic is now trying to get a better seal for the core plugs as he says it was all pretty rusty, making it difficult to get a good seal.

 

My main problem is that he says that it's not possible to purchase just the bolts needed to hold the rocker cover in place, but that I need to buy a whole new rocker cover.  I've done a quick google, but can find many examples of bolts being sold in packs...

 

Also, he says that I'm going to need a new cam belt since it'll get stretched when he removes it whilst removing the head to drill out the bolts.

 

Please, please tell me I'm not being taken for a ride?!?  I'm doing my best to try to understand what's really necessary, hence the googling, but am worried I'm getting caught up and misunderstanding all the info available on the www.



#39 artscot79

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 11:23 PM

all mechanics will replace the belt its safe practice and costs over £1000 if it snaps later ide imagine if you call ford they have the rocker bolts seperate if not any scrap yard has them it wil be difficult to get a good seal but careful sanding should sort that



#40 wase16ll

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:43 AM

the bolts are pretty standard thread so dont see there being a problem purchasing, not vital they are exactly the same as the others...as long as thread/length with similar head size..they'll do the job perfectly well

 

changing the belt is a must if removing....

 

but struggling to understand why head needs to be removed to drill out perfectly accesible bolts???

 

there are all sorts of ways to ensure you drill straight and true without the need for head removal...but then again, im not doing the job and it needs to be done right as there isnt much room for error.



#41 Andy H Dibley

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 07:58 AM

Well this is an interesting topic!

Never knew you could get Core plugs in cylinder heads!

Good detective work so far guys though!

#42 artscot79

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:05 PM

core plug problems are quite common mainly on fiats which is diagnosed as the cylinder head when its not hence why fiat has a reputation for them going really the core plugs shouldnt cause any issues but fords stupid washer jet leaks that they dont tell customers about has increased the commoness of the core plugs going ford should really be brought to task over a design fault they have known of for years which all service mechanics check but dont inform the customer



#43 CdnSarah

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:33 PM

Update 2:  Car is finally, completely repaired!  Second mechanic managed to drill out the bolts and find suitable replacements, so a new rocker cover wasn't necessary in the end.  It's also got a new timing belt, oil filter, oil change, spark plugs, core plugs, drive belt, cam belt and loose wire secured...so hopefully won't need any further work for awhile.  Cost £800 in total, but I feel more secure knowing that it's been done properly.

 

Thank you so much for your advice everyone!!



#44 artscot79

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:50 PM

No probs at least its fixed the other guy would have got you to buy a new engine goes to show some mechanics can sleep well knowing theyre ripping people off

#45 CdnSarah

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:00 PM

I know!  I can't believe he treated me that way.  And what makes it even worse is that I don't feel there's anything I could have done to make him pay for the repairs himself.  According to the CAB I would have had to give him the chance to repair it himself first, which he clearly wasn't going to admit even needed doing.  And then, to take him to court to get someone else to repair it, would cost ridiculous amounts of money and would end up my word against his...and I'd be more likely to win the lottery than win the case.

 

Ah well, at least I didn't pay his call-out fee on the day he broke it (and oddly enough, he hasn't been chasing it up either).



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