MK3 Handbrake

[Albert27]

Hi guys.

Last few weeks the handbrake has been getting higher and higher when applied.  Has to be on the highest notch it can get to to properly hold the car.  

No experience at all with handbrakes so any advice on how i diagnose/sort this issue would be much appreciated.  It's drum brakes at the rear if that's relevant.

Thanks in advance!

 

 

[iantt]

take the drums off and see whats happening when you pull handbrake up a little

[isetta]

on older cars this kind of problem is usually due to problems with the automatic brake adjusters inside  the rear drums. 

[Albert27]

16 minutes ago, iantt said:

take the drums off and see whats happening when you pull handbrake up a little

Thanks Ian.  What am i looking for, what's good, what's bad?

[Albert27]

14 minutes ago, isetta said:

on older cars this kind of problem is usually due to problems with the automatic brake adjusters inside  the rear drums. 

Thanks isetta.  The car is 2014 but has covered 108,000 miles.  If this is the case, do you just replace the adjusters?

[Stoney871]

When were the pads last changed?
Could be that they are beyond maximum adjustment.

Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)

[Albert27]

12 minutes ago, Stoney871 said:

When were the pads last changed?
Could be that they are beyond maximum adjustment.

Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)
 

To my knowledge Clive,  the shoes have never been changed. The hand brake goes up 5 clicks to hold, but it's way more than it used to.

Can anyone give me a heads up on where the jacking points are on the rear of the mk3 estate?  On my mk2 there are sill jacking points for both front and rear but can't see any rear ones on the mk3. 

 

[Albert27]

So I've had the drums off this morning.  I'm not really sure what I'm looking for so I've taken some photos which I'll try to upload.  With 1r click on the handbrake i could only just about physically move the wheel.  Looking in the drum when handbrake was applied a metal sping type think moved.  Hope the photos can shed some light on it.

The other thing i wanted to ask, can the handbrake be adjusted from the lever side and how do you remove the plastic around it if so?

For anyone else reading this the bolt size to get the drums off in those holes when stuck is 8mm.

[Albert27]

[TomsFocus]

Honestly they look fine...  And if they grab with one notch, and are completely free on zero notches then they're set up properly too.  It could be that the cable has stretched though, so rather than putting all force through the shoes, once they've made contact you're then stretching the cable, rather than the cable putting all the force into the shoes...if that makes sense! 

Are you sure it's getting worse or maybe just comparing it to the mk2 handbrake?  The Mk3 one does feel a lot 'looser' and has a larger ratchet so feels as if it pulls up higher despite being on the same number of clicks.  I think it's been done to make it easier for 'weaker' people (bearing in mind most new ones go to mobility) to apply more force in the handbrake but does feel weird when swapping between the cars lol.

[Albert27]

16 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Honestly they look fine...  And if they grab with one notch, and are completely free on zero notches then they're set up properly too.  It could be that the cable has stretched though, so rather than putting all force through the shoes, once they've made contact you're then stretching the cable, rather than the cable putting all the force into the shoes...if that makes sense! 

Are you sure it's getting worse or maybe just comparing it to the mk2 handbrake?  The Mk3 one does feel a lot 'looser' and has a larger ratchet so feels as if it pulls up higher despite being on the same number of clicks.  I think it's been done to make it easier for 'weaker' people (bearing in mind most new ones go to mobility) to apply more force in the handbrake but does feel weird when swapping between the cars lol.

Cheers Tom.  It's definitely worse than it was.  It only holds on a  decent hill  at 5 clicks (can't even pull it as far as a 6th click!), anything less and it will roll back and that 5 clicks feels high to compared to what it used to be.

I think i get what you mean. If it is that, what's the simplest solution?

[Stoney871]

A decent garage can tighten up the adjusters for a few quid.

Sent from my SM-G965F (S9+)

[iantt]

get some sandpaper and lightly sand the shoes a bit, that will get the glazing on shoes off to grip better.

might be worth trying to adjust the shoes a bit if required. the adjuster ratchet wheel  can be moved with a screwdriver. only move it round a little and retry fitting drum  each time you move it.

as soon as the drum is becoming tight to fit /remove , turn adjuster wheel back a little so drum is freely moving again. see how many clicks on handbrake then. 

if your not confident with this, get a garage to do it. adjusting handbrake cable is rarely required. 

[Albert27]

4 hours ago, iantt said:

get some sandpaper and lightly sand the shoes a bit, that will get the glazing on shoes off to grip better.

might be worth trying to adjust the shoes a bit if required. the adjuster ratchet wheel  can be moved with a screwdriver. only move it round a little and retry fitting drum  each time you move it.

as soon as the drum is becoming tight to fit /remove , turn adjuster wheel back a little so drum is freely moving again. see how many clicks on handbrake then. 

if your not confident with this, get a garage to do it. adjusting handbrake cable is rarely required. 

Thanks Ian.   Where is the adjuster wheel on these?  

[iantt]

if you look at your first photo you posted, its on the bar between the left shoe and right shoe just under the top spring on the right .

they are supposed to be self adjusting ! 

[isetta]

as Iantt says "adjusting handbrake cable is rarely required. "   . I agree with this, most of the time when people adjust up the handbrake cable, they are doing this to compensate for rear adjusters that are stuck and no longer correctly self adjusting themselves.  So the handbrake cable is done instead as it is easier to do and people don't want the extra work of taking the drums off, or often because they don't understand that the real problem is the rear brake adjusters in the drums.

[iantt]

14 minutes ago, isetta said:

as Iantt says "adjusting handbrake cable is rarely required. "   . I agree with this, most of the time when people adjust up the handbrake cable, they are doing this to compensate for rear adjusters that are stuck and no longer correctly self adjusting themselves.  So the handbrake cable is done instead as it is easier to do and people don't want the extra work of taking the drums off, or often because they don't understand that the real problem is the rear brake adjusters in the drums.

yeah, then if cable adjusted , self adjusters stop working(if they were working beforehand)  causin more problems later

[Albert27]

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

[Phil21185]

You know, I've never had a drum apart. Is there supposed to be so little braking material on the shoes?

[TomsFocus]

7 minutes ago, Phil21185 said:

You know, I've never had a drum apart. Is there supposed to be so little braking material on the shoes?

That's not a bad amount tbh, they barely do any braking and have a larger surface area than pads so start thinner than rear pads do.  And much thinner than front pads as they do ~70% of the braking so wear quicker.

[isetta]

I recently got a VW Lupo. I was thoroughly checking it over which included taking rear drums off to be sure all was OK in there. The rear shoes looked fairly new but I was amazed to see the linings are riveted to the shoes. I didn't think rivets had been used for years, the linings are usually glued on. Although I have known the linings to come unstuck before if the shoe has gone rusty from car left standing etc.  So rivets are better from that point of view, but the down side with rivets is you can't use up all of the thickness of the lining as when worn part way down the rivet heads come into contact with drum which makes a noise, wears grooves in the drum and wears the heads off the rivets.  Anyone else seen riveted brake show linings in recent years?

[isetta]

and on that subject, Fiesta Mk2 brake shoes are strange because one lining is much thicker than the other. I know there is a logic there as the leading shoe will wear more than the other, but that's the only car I can recall where they vary the lining thickness. (I know I have not seen every make as I am not in the trade)  I know it sounds odd and I suspect some people won't believe it.