EML Issue

[Wxtty]

Here's the story,

I've recently acquired a 2003 1.4 Zetec TDCI, the car has many issues but i am looking to get it through its MOT, the problem i have is that the engine management light does not come on at all during start up when all the other warning lights flag.

When i remove the fuse for the KAM the light flags up, so i know it is not the LED.

I'm trying to find out if this is something that can be rectified at home or if it is something that i will have to get an engineer with a computer out to look at?

Any ideas?

 

 

 

 

[Luke4efc]

You need to run a diagnostic test to find out why the EML is coming on. The codes will get stored so doesn't matter if the light isn't on when you read it. Forscan is your best bet if you don't have a OBD2 scanner already.

[Wxtty]

But the light doesn't come on at all, that's what im getting at, i want it to at least light up

[Luke4efc]

Ah ok sorry. I thought you wouldn't get it lighting up for a while after start-up.

Would still try an obd2 scanner. Just clear the existing codes first as you removed a fuse to get it to light up.

Having said that some older cars didn't have the EML come on when the key was set to ignition (despite all the others lighting up) so may be a non issue if the light comes on when there is actually a problem.

[Wxtty]

Ahh, I’ll have to look into that thanks, my OBD2 scanner isn’t connecting up to the car, is there anything obvious why this could be? 

Thanks for the help 

[isetta]

"Having said that some older cars didn't have the EML come on when the key was set to ignition (despite all the others lighting up) so may be a non issue if the light comes on when there is actually a problem."    I agree this is the case with some cars, no idea if your model is one.   If it is, then you may have a MOT problem as MOT testers probably will not know which cars work that way and they will probably think the light has been knobbled some way. 

[Tdci-Peter]

On 9/15/2018 at 10:34 AM, Wxtty said:

the car has many issues but i am looking to get it through its MOT, the problem i have is that the engine management light does not come on at all during start up when all the other warning lights flag.

Try unplugging a sensor like the MAF or MAP sensor. That should make the EML come on. It would be handy to have a diagnostic system like Forscan to detect & reset the codes though. A lot of bog standard OBD2 readers will not work on a Mk1 Focus diesel, but Forscan with an adequate ELM327 adapter, does work.

My guess is the bulb has gone, or been removed, or covered by black goo to hide it. This is sadly very common practice for dodgy garages.

I have looked at the MoT Inspection manual (current in 2016), there is no mention of the EML as a failable item, despite many rumors. In other countries it is tested, but not (unless changed very recently) in the UK. See:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles

So that may take the time pressure off you, but knowing what, if anything, comes up as an error could be very useful. If you have a Windows laptop, Forscan will only set you back about £16, and is easy and safe to use. Ask here if you want more info.

Re-reading the 1st post, I see the EML came on with a PCM fuse removed. This just about does in my guess of bulb or black goo problems! EU Diesels were not required to be OBD2 compliant until about 2004, and before then behavior of the EML was at the whim of software engineers writing the code. So it could be behaving as programmed.

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by Tdci-Peter
Add note

[stef123]

The EML or MIL must illuminate then go off. 

Innoperative or indicating a fault is a now a major fail.

Section 8.2  

[isetta]

I agree with Stef123. New MOT manual in 2018. But I am sure there are some cars (maybe the earlier ones with EML lights) whereby it was not designed to light for a few seconds and would only light if a fault.  I am pretty sure I saw something about a Mk1 Seat Arosa owner who had to get evidence from Seat that it was that way from new to get the MOT tester to not fail it.

[stef123]

Used on or after 1st July 2003 that applies to MIL.

[Tdci-Peter]

26 minutes ago, stef123 said:

Used on or after 1st July 2003 that applies to MIL.

Yes, it seems an EML/MIL check has been added this year.

But If I am reading the manual from the gov website correctly, I think it says 2003 for Spark ignition, and 2008 for compression ignition.

"Engine malfunction indicator lamp

Turn on the ignition and check that the engine malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates and then goes off. On some vehicles it will be necessary to start the engine before the MIL goes off.

You need to inspect MIL fitted to diesel vehicles with 4 or more wheels and first used on or after 1 July 2008."

If that is true, then the OP is still ok with a non-working MIL on a 2003 1.4TDCI.

I also looked at the other changes there, EGR valves are specifically mentioned, as well as re-welded DPFs. A visible blanking plate in the EGR might be considered to be "obviously modified", any thoughts on that? I suspect it will depend on the individual tester, being able to recognise a blanking plate from a normal gasket.

[stef123]

Yes that’s right, sorry I had it in my head it was a petrol engine. 

Ian would know for sure but I suspect if the blank is easily spotted it’ll be failed. 

[TomsFocus]

So far it seems a lot of testers still don't know the new regs...things are still getting passed that shouldn't across the forums and Facebook groups...  

Easily visible EGR blank should fail, but probably won't currently.  

[isetta]

I thought that's odd I didn't recall it mentioning 2003 for petrol and 2008 diesel last time I looked.

I just checked the Govt website and there are a load of minor updates (well, minor if it does not affect you but perhaps major if it does affect you) added September 2018, to update the May 2018 manual.

One of the updates is:

Turn on the ignition and check that the engine malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminates and then goes off. On some vehicles it will be necessary to start the engine before the MIL goes off.

You need to inspect MIL fitted to

• petrol vehicles with 4 or more wheels, not more than 8 passenger seats in addition to the driver’s seat and first used on or after 1 July 2003
• petrol vehicles with 4 or more wheels, more than 8 passenger seats in addition to the driver’s seat and first used on or after 1 July 2008
• gas and bi-fuel vehicles with 4 or more wheels, not more than 8 passenger seats in addition to the driver’s seat and first used on or after 1 July 2008
•  

The part in non-italics is not new. the part in italics is new. This will help a few people I suspect. 

[stef123]

18 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

So far it seems a lot of testers still don't know the new regs...things are still getting passed that shouldn't across the forums and Facebook groups...  

Easily visible EGR blank should fail, but probably won't currently.  

oil leaks are that a local test station to me seem to be doing wrong by what the books says. 

Failed a car for having a damp sump/surrounding area and subframe but wasn’t actually dripping oil and no oil on the ground where it parks each night. That’s not the definition of an excessive oil leak.

[TomsFocus]

51 minutes ago, stef123 said:

Oil leaks are that a local test station to me seem to be doing wrong by what the books says. 

Failed a car for having a damp sump/surrounding area and subframe but wasn’t actually dripping oil and no oil on the ground where it parks each night. That’s not the definition of an excessive oil leak.

One of the testers I spoke to reckoned he failed 5 cars for oil leaks on the day the new regs came in...  I can't really believe there are that many cars being sent for MOT leaving trails of oil about and pools on the driveway myself...  

[stef123]

4 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

One of the testers I spoke to reckoned he failed 5 cars for oil leaks on the day the new regs came in...  I can't really believe there are that many cars being sent for MOT leaving trails of oil about and pools on the driveway myself...  

Funny, because this guy claims to be failing a lot of cars on oil leaks. I’ll be staying clear of him anyway as his understanding doesn’t match how I interpret the mot guideline.

[Wxtty]

Thanks a lot for the info, have learned lots 😂

However, i stripped this car out for parts and treated myself to a 2006 ST instead.

Cheers lads