bsmaff

MOT Failure - Advice Required

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Hi,

 

I wanted to ask people's help due to an MOT failure and have been given some advice by the garage who done the initial MOT and by a friend who knows a mechanic but given different advice.

So I am not going to state what advice has been given, and seek additional advice from members who will know about my car.

 

I have a 2.0L TDCI 2004 Ford Mondeo - 6 Gear 130 Manual.

 

The MOT failed for the following reasons:-

Repair immediately:-

Brake Pipe excessilvely corroded Offside Front

Fuel Pipe union leaking (Fuel rail and injectors)

Exhaust emissions exceed manufacturs specified limit

 

Repair as soon as possible:-

Position lamp light intensity obviously reduced Nearside Rear

Position lamp light intensity obviously reduced Offside Rear

 

Emissions Results:-

TEST                       SMOKE               MIN  MAX

1                               3.23                    16     29

2                               3.53                    18     32

3                               3.44                    20     34

4                               3.18                    21     36

5                               2.82                    23     37

6                               3.05                    24     38

 

Any advice given would be very grateful.

 

I uploaded a photo of the MOT test failure.

IMAGE1.jpg

IMAGE2.jpg

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Is 1.27 the actual plate value for these?  You can check this yourself, the plate just inside the drivers door, the value should be in a small box at the bottom.  Seems a bit low to me but could be correct.  Since the MOT change last year, testers are now meant to use the plate value if one is present.  If there is no plate value on your car the limit would be 3.0 - so even then you'd only just scrape through!  I'd guess you have a boost leak somewhere, or a leaking EGR valve which is very common on these engines.  If it's neither of those, injectors are another common issue on these.

The brake pipe needs replacing of course.  Not sure what to say about the fuel rail, can you see an obvious place it's leaking?  May just need a nut tightening?

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Those emmisions readings would have passed just over 12 months ago. Unfortunately not any more. And no you shouldn't deface the plate value on the vin sticker. 

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1. Retesting a vehicle that failed for smoke emissions

If you retest a vehicle that failed for smoke emissions exceeding the manufacturer’s specified limit using the vehicle plate value, you must retest the vehicle to the same plate value.

1.1 If the plate has been defaced or removed when it’s brought back to be retested

You must retest the vehicle to the same value that was recorded on the original failure test emission printout.

You can record the plate value in the free text box under Additional information before adding the failure.

 

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Thanks for the responses.

I have gone through all previous MOT's on the car and the emissions test on my car have never come close to 1.27.

The best year the car had was when I last got it serviced in 2019 and the car got 1.75, so it seems that my car will never get to the 1.27 required.
The earliest emissions I have goes back to 2010/11 and the car got 2.85, and this is roughly what it gets all the time.

Upto 2016 the car also has a full service history.

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You got 2 options, scrap the car , or get the work done. What I wouldn't do is deface the plate value on the vin plate and take it for another mot at another garage . 😉😉😉😉😉

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6 hours ago, iantt said:

You got 2 options, scrap the car , or get the work done. What I wouldn't do is deface the plate value on the vin plate and take it for another mot at another garage . 😉😉😉😉😉

I have attached a photo.

Is this the label you are talking about?

Should I *not* deface the part that says 1.27 or should I *not* peel the label off all together?

I still believe even with the emissions the other parts would fail anyway and replacing the injectors could cost a lot of money.

20190505_193057.jpg

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Never deface that. It is largely irrelevant anyway as the VIN appears in a number of places so you’ll just make it look sketchy.

I always thought that the car has to pass to original specifications. Even though the law has changed they can’t make it impossible for you to pass, picking values that were never obtainable.

Sounds like you have a tough decision to make. Either get it fixed (it may have a longer term problem) so it passes, or get shot of it.

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11 hours ago, bsmaff said:

I have attached a photo.

Is this the label you are talking about?

Should I *not* deface the part that says 1.27 or should I *not* peel the label off all together?

I still believe even with the emissions the other parts would fail anyway and replacing the injectors could cost a lot of money.

20190505_193057.jpg

Well it looks like the 1.27 is correct, I am surprised about that considering they're non-DPF and every Mk3 and X Type with this engine blows clouds every time the driver accelerates... :laugh:  

In all honesty though, you can probably pick up another 15 year old Mk3 for ~£500 with MOT, it's not worth trying to pass this if it needs injectors as well.  Are you sure it's not just a loose nut or weeping seal causing that fault?

58 minutes ago, LondonFiesta said:

Never deface that. It is largely irrelevant anyway as the VIN appears in a number of places so you’ll just make it look sketchy.

I always thought that the car has to pass to original specifications. Even though the law has changed they can’t make it impossible for you to pass, picking values that were never obtainable.

1.27 is the original spec, Ford print it on the VIN plate... :smile:  Though I'm guessing back in 2004 they never thought it would actually be used after production... :laugh: 

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As I see it, the limit the car had to achieve on the pre-20 May 2018 regulations was 3.00.  It now has to achieve 1.27, that's quite a change and makes me wonder if the plan was to try to remove older diesels by stealth - sneak in this change in the MOT regs. 

So it the owner had known this before the MOT test was done he could have removed the whole sticker (carefully with a plastic scraper) then used some white spirit to remove the goo then polished the door post area so it looked like there never was one there. Of course an MOT tester would know there should be a sticker there, but if the owner says I have owned the car for 10 years and there has never been anything there, then the MOT tester has to use 3 as the limit instead of 1.27 doesn't he? 

I don't think the diesel emission value is shown anywhere else on the car.

I had a look at my sister's fiesta 1.4tdci 2004 and that shows 2.64,  so at least that's a much smaller reduction, or perhaps none at all if the sticker is removed.

My 2015 Fiesta shows 0.50 , pre-20 May 2018 mot regs allowed 1.5 for that age car - the current regs for that age says 0.72 or the sticker if lower, so even if sticker removed the limit has been reduced by over 50%. I have a dpf so hopefully the limits are achievable. At my (first) MOT last October I was not given an emission printout. Should they have given me one?

Can any MOT testers reading this say what the attitude is for cars with the sticker removed? are they seeing a lot of them? 

If you have a pre-2008 diesel car with the number on the sticker being below 3 there must be a strong temptation to remove the sticker. 

I know some people will think that such a 'fiddle' to get round the MOT regs should not be allowed but all it is trying to do is to apply the same rules this year as a year ago, I don't think that is all that unreasonable. No one wants to potentially scrap their car because the govt decided to apply stricter rules on the emission levels this year to older cars

I bet bsmaff is gutted, I would be. 

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We had a special notice through recently saying if a car comes.back and it was tested under the original value then it has been defaced. It must still be tested under the original value. New test station would be default if defaced. However you needent deface it. All diesel.i have ever seen that don't have a fault but high emmisions are almost always down to.the way they were driven. Take it for a blast in 3rd right through the revs from 30 till limiter a few times and she will most likely clear. The main issue with the smoke test is the reason people get a high reading isn't because there's a problem. It's because they're sensible drivers. The excess soot sticks to the inside of the exhaust and doesn't ever get blasted out. Come test time we take them up to.the longer and poof. Big cloud of smoke as it hasn't been thrashed. For reference as it's a turbo.

Pre September 2008 (I think it's September) 3.00
Post 2008-2015 (again don't quote me on specifics. I always just look at the info each time.)
1.50
Post 2015 default 0.7

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10 minutes ago, isetta said:

My 2015 Fiesta shows 0.50 , pre-20 May 2018 mot regs allowed 1.5 for that age car - the current regs for that age says 0.72 or the sticker if lower, so even if sticker removed the limit has been reduced by over 50%. I have a dpf so hopefully the limits are achievable. At my (first) MOT last October I was not given an emission printout. Should they have given me one?

You'll find most modern diesels with DPF's produce so little smoke that the machine can't actually give a reading for it!  Very common on VAG main dealer MOTs to see this put down as an advisory of 'emissions too low' but Ford MDs don't seem to bother.  They're not required to give you an emissions print out unless it fails.

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You'll find most modern diesels with DPF's produce so little smoke that the machine can't actually give a reading for it!  Very common on VAG main dealer MOTs to see this put down as an advisory of 'emissions too low' but Ford MDs don't seem to bother.  They're not required to give you an emissions print out unless it fails.
This has changed now since the new limits. The machines have got a lot more sensitive. There was a nation wide rollout of machines last year. Cut off September to get them.installed if not you were shut off from testing.


Also just to add we see very little if any sticker defacement. The general public have no idea what's going on. Half of them don't even know where Thier locking wheel key is FFS.

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I am a tester btw. A straight one as well. I've been on forums in the past and people.have asked me to do bent tests. The answer is always no. Your one car to pass isn't worth my entire career as a mechanic not to mention the life's of others if something was dangerous. Just incase I get any private messages incoming.

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3 minutes ago, bashbarnard said:

This has changed now since the new limits. The machines have got a lot more sensitive. There was a nation wide rollout of machines last year. Cut off September to get them.installed if not you were shut off from testing.


Also just to add we see very little if any sticker defacement. The general public have no idea what's going on. Half of them don't even know where Thier locking wheel key is FFS.

Ah that's interesting, do the new machines read anything else?  I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they start adding extra emissions to diesel tests...  

Due to the new regs, and being too poor for petrol, I've had to go back to running DPFs myself despite my super low mileage...it's currently doing a regen every 100 miles or less...at this point there's more diesel in the sump than oil. :lol: But still passed smoke test well below the plate figure lol.

Funny you say about the locking wheel key, I've been reading a lot of breakdown reviews lately and saw a great complaint...  Customer complained they couldn't replace a wheel at the roadside because the she didn't have the locking wheel nut key...  But she'd told them she did have it as she thought the 'key' was another name for the actual locking nut... 🤦‍♂️ :laugh:

 

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I had to point out the locking key to the new owner of my focus, I'm sure she will loose it. 

Some people take the service book and owners manual out of car with the locking nut also. So when customers come in for the car to be serviced , we can't get the wheels off, spend an age looking every where for it. Then a phone call to the customer to find out where it is. Ok if they live nearby to fetch it. 

Luckily if its a ford locking nut , we have master sets to use. 

But back to the emmisions subject , the MK3 wasn't the best at low emmisions even with a thrashing down the road. 

 

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1 hour ago, bashbarnard said:

I am a tester btw. A straight one as well. I've been on forums in the past and people.have asked me to do bent tests. The answer is always no. Your one car to pass isn't worth my entire career as a mechanic not to mention the life's of others if something was dangerous. Just incase I get any private messages incoming.

I've messaged you.....  Only kidding , I can do my own from home lol . only kidding again. Haven't got my card with me. 

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Ah that's interesting, do the new machines read anything else?  I'm sure it's only a matter of time before they start adding extra emissions to diesel tests...  
Due to the new regs, and being too poor for petrol, I've had to go back to running DPFs myself despite my super low mileage...it's currently doing a regen every 100 miles or less...at this point there's more diesel in the sump than oil.  But still passed smoke test well below the plate figure lol.
Funny you say about the locking wheel key, I've been reading a lot of breakdown reviews lately and saw a great complaint...  Customer complained they couldn't replace a wheel at the roadside because the she didn't have the locking wheel nut key...  But she'd told them she did have it as she thought the 'key' was another name for the actual locking nut...  
 
No, they only read the smoke still. Yeah in not surprised if they start reading more. As even without a dpf I've seen them pass the emission test then fail miserably when I look under the bonnet and see it doesn't have one

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23 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

You'll find most modern diesels with DPF's produce so little smoke that the machine can't actually give a reading for it!  Very common on VAG main dealer MOTs to see this put down as an advisory of 'emissions too low' but Ford MDs don't seem to bother.  They're not required to give you an emissions print out unless it fails.

Don't some VAG diesels also have a rev limiter to limit what they can be revved to in neutral?

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Don't some VAG diesels also have a rev limiter to limit what they can be revved to in neutral?
Turn off traction control, hold clutch in. Rev. You get full extent of the revs then.

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Just now, bashbarnard said:
15 minutes ago, 1979Damian said:
Don't some VAG diesels also have a rev limiter to limit what they can be revved to in neutral?

Turn off traction control, hold clutch in. Rev. You get full extent of the revs then.

Is that what MOT testers do or do they just work with the "Standard" engine behaviour?

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It's how I test. Every other car gets the same treatment. Why should bag get away with it just cause they tried to cheat the system.

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5 minutes ago, bashbarnard said:

It's how I test. Every other car gets the same treatment. Why should bag get away with it just cause they tried to cheat the system. emoji23.png

My kind of MOT guy! 😁

 

I agree, everyone's cars should be treated equally.  If one of the tests requires 1 or more redline runs then the tester should be able to do this, if they can't then it's not really a valid test.

 

Keep up the good work :thumbup:

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1 hour ago, 1979Damian said:

Don't some VAG diesels also have a rev limiter to limit what they can be revved to in neutral?

It's not just VAG, or just diesels, a lot of cars have neutral limiters these days.  But yes, on my 2.0 TDI it's 2500rpm...well on boost at that point so a nice clean exhaust. :biggrin: Tbf though, I've never cleaned the backbox tips on it, they just don't get sooty at all.  VW may have cheated the NOx but the particulates seem to be genuinely low.

1 hour ago, bashbarnard said:
1 hour ago, 1979Damian said:
Don't some VAG diesels also have a rev limiter to limit what they can be revved to in neutral?

Turn off traction control, hold clutch in. Rev. You get full extent of the revs then.

What about the DSG models? :unsure: 

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Dsg models are a little harder to trick. I can't remember the procedure off top of my head as I dont see many to be honest. They've all broken . I think I might get one diesel dsg a month.

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