muffintastic

Headlights Problem

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Where can I start? I have an 06 Ford Fiesta1.4 TDCi, when I turn my lights off and ignition the dipped headlights remain on, nothing else so I've had to remove the two fuses to turn them off. 

The switch for the lights are in the off position, main beam works without the fuses when the car is on, the side lights and fog lights work as normal. 

It's going for MOT and Service Tuesday and I know this will fail being an issue, could this be a relay issue or the actual switch? To sum it up the whole car has been fine all day and the all the time I've had the car never encountered this issue. 

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Firstly - if you switch the dip switch to main beam with ig on, does the main beam come on? and at that point is the dip on also or has it switched to main beam only? if you leave the dip switch in main beam position does the main beam stay on when you turn ig off? If main beam goes off as you turn ig off then it can't be the headlamp switch at fault (I am referring to the switch near your right knee) . 

sounds most likely to me to be a stuck relay. Relays are behind the glovebox.

I think the main beam and dip relays are next to eachother and probably identical. you could try taking dip relay out and putting mainbeam one in it's place and see what happens.

I don't think the mainbeam/dip switch can be at fault as there should not be any power feeding to that switch with ig off so even if switch all broken inside there should be no ill effect when ig is off.

I had to buy a dip/main beam swicth for my Sister's 2004 fiesta last week, got one on ebay 6.99 incl postage. Hers had broken inside. so they are cheap (2nd hand) but it does not sound like that's your problem. 

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1 hour ago, isetta said:

Firstly - if you switch the dip switch to main beam with ig on, does the main beam come on? and at that point is the dip on also or has it switched to main beam only? if you leave the dip switch in main beam position does the main beam stay on when you turn ig off? If main beam goes off as you turn ig off then it can't be the headlamp switch at fault (I am referring to the switch near your right knee) . 

sounds most likely to me to be a stuck relay. Relays are behind the glovebox.

I think the main beam and dip relays are next to eachother and probably identical. you could try taking dip relay out and putting mainbeam one in it's place and see what happens.

I don't think the mainbeam/dip switch can be at fault as there should not be any power feeding to that switch with ig off so even if switch all broken inside there should be no ill effect when ig is off.

I had to buy a dip/main beam swicth for my Sister's 2004 fiesta last week, got one on ebay 6.99 incl postage. Hers had broken inside. so they are cheap (2nd hand) but it does not sound like that's your problem. 

Basically in a nut Shell, when the switch is set to the off position all lights are off, when the ignition is off and shutdown and when the car starts up all the lights work normally with the exception of the normal dipped lights. 

As soon a I put the two fuses back in for the dipped lights with the car off dead and the switch in the off position the dipped headlights come on and they only way to turn them off is to pull the two 10 amp fuses and they go off, so it can't be the fuses as they're good, so it's the relays? I will try and get them out I tried earlier but they're hard to get out, they labelled R1 and R4 I think, correct me if I'm wrong but I will pull the relays, put the fuses back in and they shouldn't come back on with the engine off and the light switch in the off position , correct? 

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Update as of 11th of May I've done everything I can think of, it's not the switch, not the relays, not the fuses, had both head lamps out, and bulbs and still they remain on, the diagnostic machine has 0 faults also. The only thing I haven't tried is disconnect the battery for a few hours to reset but I've been told of it still happens it's an electrical problem and if that's the case it's not worth the time or money to get it fixed. 

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I can't understand how the dip headlights could possible be on if the relay is removed.

I have a Haynes manual for 2002-2008 Fiesta. If yours is 2006 I assume it is facelift version (front indicators in bottom of headlights). The Haynes manual is based on the pre-facelift car but I would have thought the headlamp electric system would be same - but can't be sure.

Anyway, in the pre-facelift model the relays for dip and main beam are the two relays at the top right of the fuse box behind the glovebox.  These relays are smaller than some of the others. I do not know which way round the dip/main beam is but you can tell which is main beam by using the headlamp flasher and holding finger on relay to feel the clicking.

In case you don't know how to get there more easily, open glovebox, empty it, flex the two sides inwards to release the glovebox so it hinges down to the floor. 

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And if you remove the glove box, you should have this label on the rear...

And I would think that the dip relay is to blame, contacts "welded" together, as stated by Isetta above.

Do you have uprated H4s in your headlamps ?

Fiesta Fuse - Copy.jpg

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Going to have another look today, at this current time of 12th May it's a weird problem even the mechanics were stumped. 

At the moment the going home headlights are off that's only due to me removing the R4 relay, as stated while the car is off and everything else as you put that relay back in they come on, I've tried two R4 relays with no success, so it's not them or the fuses, I don't understand where its getting power from to keep them constantly on even though the car is shut off and even tried two light switches and still the same symptom. 

It's getting power even though the engine is off and stationary, the mechanics did check the light bulbs and lights and could see nothing wrong, the car has been working fine for 12 months in all weather conditions, it's starting happening cos my MOT is due 😂, so I'm stumped. 

The only other thing I can try is removing the ignition relay to see if it's possible that maybe the problem and relay 1, if not I will keep the battery off until tomorrow evening and see if the computer resets if all fails I think it might be a electric issue, a bad ground or short, but other than that the car is rock solid for and the indicators are at the bottom. 

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actually looking at that fusebox diagram I see R1 is Autolamp which has made me think.

I previously had a 2007 fiesta mk6.5,  this had two features - a) the headlamp switch had an auto position. In that position the headlights went on or off depending on how dark or light it was outside - handy for roads which have a lot of tunnels here and there (I have only come across such roads abroad)      and  b) I think Ford called this homesafe lights or something like that - when you got home you could get the headlamps to stay on for something like 20 seconds so you could see the way to your front door after getting out of car. I am wondering if whatever controls that is stuck/faulty.  That might be relay 1 but I am not sure. 

I don't actually know if your has these feature, I think the Auto lights was optional extra on my Zetec,  but I think the Homesafe lights was standard.

So if yours has relay 1, have you tried removing it?

 

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if it came to it and all else fails to resolve it the headlamp dip circuit could be totally rewired from the mainbeam/dip switch dip output wire to the dip headlamps using a load of suitable wire (thick enough for the electrical load), a relay and for safety - fuses.    Not ideal but should be easy for someone who can do electrics and if it's the difference between getting an MOt and having no MOT then maybe it's the solution. 

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On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 8:40 PM, muffintastic said:

 

It's going for MOT and Service Tuesday and I know this will fail being an issue, could this be a relay issue or the actual switch? To sum it up the whole car has been fine all day and the all the time I've had the car never encountered this issue. 

I'm not sure this is an MOT fail is it?  Some cars are even wired to have the dipped lights on permanently as it's a requirement in places like Sweden, I've had a couple of Volvos like that.  If they didn't switch on that's obviously a fail but I don't know if there's anything about not switching off...

Are your tail lights staying on or do they go on and off with the switch as expected?  

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Let me clarify, all lights work as expectedly before this issue arose and still do with the exception of the “Going Home” headlights.

I pulled up the other night stationary with the lights still on working as normal with switch in the correct position down by my knee, I come to turn the switch to the off position and they all went out with the exception of the going home headlights or dipped and when I killed the ignition they remained still on.

I have tried two different switches to no avail the problem remains, the diagnostic machine reported back with NO error codes, I’ve tried switching the main beam relay to R4 and the problem still there even when the car is stationary and not turned on the lights just stay on, tried two different relays for R4 makes no difference, I either have to remove the R4 relay to kill the lights to save the battery and have to insert it at night before driving, all this while there is no engine and all normal switches in the off position with no power.

To everyone that has posted, when I double lock the car the side lights go out as normal this isn’t the issue, it’s the main going home headlights that are borked and receiving power even though the engine is off and the switches are all set to off, indicators and brake lights and fog lights work as expected and function how they should.

I think it is an MOT fail but is booked in for Tuesday this week. I will let my brother in law know and see what he thinks, the best bet for today would be to fetch all the relays and fuses out with just relay 4 plugged in while the engine is of and the light switches off, I will get him to check the wires coming from the switch too which I didn’t have a look, maybe there is something there too.

 

Could the AutoLamp Relay be causing the issue, I wouldn’t of thought it but there is definitely something not right and like isetta said if the engine is off and switches are off there shouldn’t be power to anything, either a relay or fuse I haven’t check isn’t functioning correctly or there could be a short or earth or something, God knows why after 12 months of having it as my first car it’s decided to bork up, mechanically it’s fine, tyres are fine just this one fault that could cause me to scrap it since it wouldn’t be worth the time or money for that fault.

 

Thanks for your feedback guys, more information the better. 😊

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Pulling the relay 243 really should stop the lights working.have you got autolights position on your switch? 

Screenshot_20190512-135830.png

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There's nothing about switching off in the manual...  Even if they don't understand the wording correctly it could only be a minor at worst...  Obviously it needs fixing but I really don't think it's an issue for the MOT. :smile: 

4.1.3 Switching

Dipped or main beam headlamps must immediately light up when they're switched on (depending on the position of the dip switch).

Headlamps must switch immediately between main beam and dipped beam when you move the dip switch.

Moving the dip switch must do one of the following:

  • extinguish all main beam headlamps and leave on at least one pair of dipped-beam headlamps
  • deflect the main beams to make them dipped beams

Dipped beam headlamps can remain on or switch off when main beam is selected.

Defect Category
  1. Headlamp ‘on’ switch does not operate in accordance with the requirements
Minor
  1. Headlamp ‘dip’ switch does not operate in accordance with the requirements
Major

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UPDATE, DON'T WHAT'S HAPPENED BUT IT'S WORKING AS NORMAL NOW, I SWAPPED THE MAIN BEAM RELAY INTO R4 WHILE THE ENGINE WAS OFF AND SWITCH WAS IN OFF POSITION AND THEY DIDN'T COME ON THEY STAYED OFF.

I PUT THE MAIN BEAM RELAY BACK IN IT'S NORMAL SOCKET, THEN PUT THE HEADLIGHT RELAY BACK IN AND SAME SITUATION WORKING AS NORMAL, THIS HAS ONLY WORKED SINCE THE UK HAS HAD HOT WEATHER TODAY. STRANGE BUT IT'S WORKING AND WON'T HOLD MY BREATH.

Thanks for the help guys!

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