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Focus 1.6 tdci DMF diagnosis


cymro1973
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Hi

My 2007 car has been vibrating badly all weekend and smoking more. Checked all mountings and they look good, tonight bit more of noise and smoke and it just stopped. It wont turn over now. Does this sound like the flywheel i was expecting more noise if it was and why the excess smoke?  Surely the car would still start over if flywheel had failed. Any other ideas

many thanks

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On 8/31/2021 at 9:17 PM, cymro1973 said:

Hi

My 2007 car has been vibrating badly all weekend and smoking more. Checked all mountings and they look good, tonight bit more of noise and smoke and it just stopped. It wont turn over now. Does this sound like the flywheel i was expecting more noise if it was and why the excess smoke?  Surely the car would still start over if flywheel had failed. Any other ideas

many thanks

Any help out there with this query please 

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 hour ago, cymro1973 said:

starter just clicks but not turn over

I can't see how a worn DMF would stop it cranking. First check for discharged battery by seeing if any lights (eg internal dome lamp) go really dim when trying to start. Then mark the crankshaft pulley or aux belt somewhere where you can see it with chalk or something equally harmless, keep igniton off (key can be in Aux position to free the steering lock), engage 5th gear and push the car back & forward to see if the engine turns at all. It may have seized.

If you can get a front wheel up easily, you can turn the raised wheel with a wheelbrace to do the same thing a bit easier. (chock the other front wheel well!)

I had a Sierra that did this, no odd noise or other symptoms, just stalled in the middle of the road doing a 3 point turn, would not crank, and by the time I pushed it to the kerb, the engine was locked absolutely solid. It was probably an oil blockage that caused crankshaft bearings to overheat & seize in that case.

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I have heard of the iron filings from worn DMF jamming up the  starter motor as the magnets in the starter motor attract them. But that’s just from reading stuff, not first hand experience.  The only way to check that is to remove starter motor to see it

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tried the above tonight but car is on slight incline so unable to rock it in gear. Do you mean try turning the jacked up wheel while it's in gear ?

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1 hour ago, cymro1973 said:

Do you mean try turning the jacked up wheel while it's in gear ?

Yes, exactly. But be aware the other front wheel will try to turn (in the opposite direction) due to the differential. So it should be firmly chocked with bricks or similar so it can not move, as well as putting the handbrake on. Top gear (5th) will give apply the greatest torque to the engine crankshaft for a given force on the wheel. Try in both directions. A wheelbrace on a wheel nut should turn a free engine over well before you get to enough torque to loosen a normally tightened wheelnut.

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Hi 

Right tried turning wheel tonight and it will move about quarter turn in 5th gear and gets to point where I slacken off wheel nuts. Thoughts on that ?

Also have another problem is the car full of diesel what's best way to empty it can't get pipe into tank from filler because of anti syphon valve. I can see small hole under seat where I guess fuel sender connection are is that a option if I make the hole bigger somehow. Any other ideas?

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22 hours ago, cymro1973 said:

tried turning wheel tonight and it will move about quarter turn in 5th gear and gets to point where I slacken off wheel nuts. Thoughts on that ?

Also have another problem is the car full of diesel what's best way to empty it

Put a chalk mark or bit of tape on the Aux belt where you can see it. Then try the wheel turning test (both ways) to see if there is any movement at all in the crankshaft. The quarter turn on the wheel may just be the slack in the transmission. But all the symptoms are stacking up with a seized engine.

Oddly, just last week I had to drain out my tank, long story involving a fuel crisis, important journeys to do, tiredness and blind stupidity!

I also could not get a pipe fully down into the tank (even though I don't have the "easy fuel" system). I used the fuel return pipe in the engine bay, just disconnected it from the junction near the fuel pump and syphoned from that. As you are not worried about about re-starting the engine, you can also do it from the fuel feed pipe to the fuel filter, which may be easier to get at on the 1.6. I did not want air getting into the feed lines as it can be a pain to bleed them and get the engine started again. I found a piece of plastic pipe which was a good fit up inside the fitting on the end of the pipe, and used a basic primer bulb to start the syphon. It was slow, but got it all out once I fixed the leaks in my syphon pipes. My car was also on a slight slope, front end down, so I could put the fuel container below the tank level quite easily.

 

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On 10/14/2021 at 5:29 PM, Tdci-Peter said:

Put a chalk mark or bit of tape on the Aux belt where you can see it. Then try the wheel turning test (both ways) to see if there is any movement at all in the crankshaft. The quarter turn on the wheel may just be the slack in the transmission. But all the symptoms are stacking up with a seized engine.

Oddly, just last week I had to drain out my tank, long story involving a fuel crisis, important journeys to do, tiredness and blind stupidity!

I also could not get a pipe fully down into the tank (even though I don't have the "easy fuel" system). I used the fuel return pipe in the engine bay, just disconnected it from the junction near the fuel pump and syphoned from that. As you are not worried about about re-starting the engine, you can also do it from the fuel feed pipe to the fuel filter, which may be easier to get at on the 1.6. I did not want air getting into the feed lines as it can be a pain to bleed them and get the engine started again. I found a piece of plastic pipe which was a good fit up inside the fitting on the end of the pipe, and used a basic primer bulb to start the syphon. It was slow, but got it all out once I fixed the leaks in my syphon pipes. My car was also on a slight slope, front end down, so I could put the fuel container below the tank level quite easily.

 

Thanks which one the fuel fed pipe on filter or is it obvious. ? 

When I tried turning wheel saw no movement on belt how much would you expect 

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2 hours ago, cymro1973 said:

When I tried turning wheel saw no movement on belt how much would you expect 

Turning one driven wheel with the other one not moving will give about 1.2 revs on the crankshaft for 1 rev on the wheel, in 5th gear. Not far off 1:1, so a quarter turn on the wheel (after taking up the slack in the transmission) would be several inches of movement on the belt. There is normally quite an appreciable amount of slack in the transmission (including DMF), so the quarter turn you are getting at the wheel is probably just that.

Just as an afterthought, it might be worth dropping off the starter motor if you can get to it. It is just possible the motor has jammed up with its teeth engaged in the starter ring on the flywheel. I have not heard of this happening, but it might be a good idea to rule it out before scrapping the car!

2 hours ago, cymro1973 said:

Thanks which one the fuel fed pipe on filter or is it obvious. ?

According to Haynes (only about 97% right!!), the filter inlet (feed from the tank) is the one nearer the centre of the filter, into the plastic lump. That is the opposite to what I would have guessed, most round filters have the outlet in the middle. But in your case it is not critical, air in the system is the least of your worries, sad to say!

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5 hours ago, cymro1973 said:

Ok thanks can't really get access easily to disengage starter  so nothing more I can check ?

It is not a likely possibility for a starter to do that, the starter pinion will normally spring away from the flywheel, freeing the engine even if the armature did jam.

When the engine in my Sierra seized, I was able to get a large spanner on the nut on the crankshaft pulley, and directly feel that there was absolutely no movement in the crankshaft at all, it was like it was welded in place, which, in a way, it probably was. But access on a Sierra is much easier than on a modern transverse engine car. It is low down between the engine and the body front extensions on the driver's side, with a rather narrow gap.

I would feel happier myself if the fault was confirmed by a local mechanic or expert, I worry that I have missed something! But I can't think what.

 

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