Hi all. 

I've seen a few posts on here and elsewhere describing this, or similar problems, but no clear solutions so...

I have a 2013 Focus 1.0 EcoBoost with 215,000km on the clock. For the last 3-4 years it has an intermittent problem where it refuses start. It has a start button and it can take multiple attempts to get the engine to fire. Sometimes it might be two, sometimes it might be 30. But (so far!) it always starts in the end. We live in Sweden and at first the problem was only present during cold periods (approx below -2), but recently it has worsened to the point where it happens at all temperatures. It also used to be the case that once it had started it would then always restart until it had had a long break, but now it can fail to restart at any point and has begun failing to restart when the stop start activates. 

I have swapped the starter relay with the blower fan relay (they are the same) which didn't help. I have cleaned the battery terminals and all the earth leads I can see. Testing for a bad ground with a multimeter reveals no apparent problems. The battery itself is an obvious culprit, but I discounted that at first because it was less than a year old at the point the problem started. But as it's now worsening, perhaps battery degradation could be the cause? The voltage reads between 12.2v and 12.4v with the engine off and 14.6v with it running. There appears to be a 'debate' online about how much charge a healthy battery should have, with anything from 12.6v to 12v being the recommended lower limit. 

I'm happy to change the battery if there's a decent chance that will help, but at the same time don't want to spend nearly £200 if there's no point!

Any ideas?

3 minutes ago, ElCani said:

The voltage reads between 12.2v and 12.4v with the engine off and 14.6v with it running. There appears to be a 'debate' online about how much charge a healthy battery should have, with anything from 12.6v to 12v being the recommended lower limit. 

 

13 minutes ago, unofix said:

 

Thanks, I assume that info is specific to Ford? 

Given that the problem definitely occurs when the measured voltage is at 12.4, would you say that replacing the battery is unlikely to help?

Cheers.  

4 minutes ago, ElCani said:

Thanks, I assume that info is specific to Ford? 

Yes 👍

4 minutes ago, ElCani said:

Given that the problem definitely occurs when the measured voltage is at 12.4, would you say that replacing the battery is unlikely to help?

I very much doubt that replacing the battery will make any difference.

The instrument cluster would be my thought. Next time you try to start it and it won't, give the dashboard a good thump with your hand just above the instruments. See if there is any change.

3 minutes ago, unofix said:

Yes 👍

I very much doubt that replacing the battery will make any difference.

Thanks. Any thoughts on what the cause of the problem might be? 🙏

6 minutes ago, unofix said:

The instrument cluster would be my thought.

The solder joints on the instrument cluster is a known issue on many Ford models up until late 2013/2014

Here in the UK there are many companies that will repair/refurbish them for less than £100

8 minutes ago, unofix said:

The solder joints on the instrument cluster is a known issue on many Ford models up until late 2013/2014

Here in the UK there are many companies that will repair/refurbish them for less than £100

Mk3 Focus as well? That I didn't know...

1 minute ago, ElCani said:

Mk3 Focus as well?

Not usual for a Mk3 but you have the symptoms of a faulty instrument cluster.

Have you used FORScan to check for Ford specific DTC's.

5 minutes ago, unofix said:

Not usual for a Mk3 but you have the symptoms of a faulty instrument cluster.

Have you used FORScan to check for Ford specific DTC's.

I haven't. No windows laptop and unsure of the availability of the necessary cables here in Sweden. But I guess I should investigate!

https://www.amazon.se/gp/product/B0952P4MLP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Just ordered that. Do I just need to borrow a Windows laptop and I'm good to go?

2 minutes ago, ElCani said:

Just ordered that. Do I just need to borrow a Windows laptop and I'm good to go?

Yes 👍

13 hours ago, ElCani said:

Hi all. 

I've seen a few posts on here and elsewhere describing this, or similar problems, but no clear solutions so...

I have a 2013 Focus 1.0 EcoBoost with 215,000km on the clock. For the last 3-4 years it has an intermittent problem where it refuses start.

 The voltage reads between 12.2v and 12.4v with the engine off and 14.6v with it running. There appears to be a 'debate' online about how much charge a healthy battery should have, with anything from 12.6v to 12v being the recommended lower limit. 

Any ideas?

Hi,

So the problem started around 4 years ago and the same battery was fitted back then too? How old was the battery back then?

I imagine the 12.2-12.4V engine off means that the ECUs were awake and there is some load on the battery. What about when the car is sleeping? The voltage should be higher. Is there any way for you to get a battery diagnostic and find the state of health and internal resistance? This would help you figure out if you do need to change the battery. Make sure the battery tester can test your battery type (EFB AGM GEL etc) otherwise you will get inaccurate results (I found that the hard way :D).

And OFTOPIC: you have a 1.0 with 215,000 km and you had no issues with the engine?? Impressive reliability there😄

4 hours ago, RaduF86 said:

Hi,

So the problem started around 4 years ago and the same battery was fitted back then too? How old was the battery back then?

I imagine the 12.2-12.4V engine off means that the ECUs were awake and there is some load on the battery. What about when the car is sleeping? The voltage should be higher. Is there any way for you to get a battery diagnostic and find the state of health and internal resistance? This would help you figure out if you do need to change the battery. Make sure the battery tester can test your battery type (EFB AGM GEL etc) otherwise you will get inaccurate results (I found that the hard way :D).

And OFTOPIC: you have a 1.0 with 215,000 km and you had no issues with the engine?? Impressive reliability there😄

The battery was approx one year old at the start of the problem, hence my discounting it as the cause. 
 

How long does it take before the car goes to sleep? 

I guess it depends on the car and can be anyting between 20 to 40 min, but without a way of knowing for sure, leave it for 1 hour undisturbed and it should be sleeping if nothing is keeping it awake. 

However, I have had the same question about the voltage being 12.2 to 12.4V and asked here on the forum and I was told that 12.4V is already kind of low. It was indeed true for my Varta EFB battery. It was dropping to 12.1V 12.2V under light load (approx 4 Amps) and down to 11.9V at approx 20 Amps load. As a comparrison the new battery I installed fully charged was able to keep 12.3V at 21 Amps load current, and the no load voltage of about 12.9-13.0V, so very big difference!

But I am not saying your car doesn't start because of the battery so better find out what is wrong before spending money!

Ok… so I just tested the battery after it’s been sitting overnight. Read 12.06v. I then put the mainbeams on for 30s and tested again, 11.99v. So that suggests the battery isn’t in great shape, but… when I tried to start the car it fired on the second go so… 🤷‍♂️

8 hours ago, RaduF86 said:

Hi,

So the problem started around 4 years ago and the same battery was fitted back then too? How old was the battery back then?

I imagine the 12.2-12.4V engine off means that the ECUs were awake and there is some load on the battery. What about when the car is sleeping? The voltage should be higher. Is there any way for you to get a battery diagnostic and find the state of health and internal resistance? This would help you figure out if you do need to change the battery. Make sure the battery tester can test your battery type (EFB AGM GEL etc) otherwise you will get inaccurate results (I found that the hard way :D).

And OFTOPIC: you have a 1.0 with 215,000 km and you had no issues with the engine?? Impressive reliability there😄

Re a high mileage EcoBoost, you can read about that here. 🙂

https://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/134521-rare-ecoboost-10-tale-of-not-woe/

16 hours ago, ElCani said:

Ok… so I just tested the battery after it’s been sitting overnight. Read 12.06v. I then put the mainbeams on for 30s and tested again, 11.99v. So that suggests the battery isn’t in great shape, but… when I tried to start the car it fired on the second go so… 🤷‍♂️

Good, we now have some more info to go on. The voltage suggests the battery has quite a low state of charge, but it doesn't say much about the battery health. The cheapest way to go is to charge it with a smart charger and see what happens. If it cannot hold the charge and drops again to the values you have now, it would be quite clear that the battery is close to its end of life.

So… got the cable and borrowed the laptop. After clearing the old DTCs and rescanning, no new DTCs were found. 
 

Any further ideas, anyone? 

Are there any DTC stored when the car refuses to start? 

If you cleared all stored DTCs and the car was running fine, there should be no new ones.

This problem seems to be elusive. I noted a few things from the discussion. No DTC's, oldish car, battery sort of ok, has a start button, multiple presses to start but will eventually start.

Could the problem be as simple as needing a new start button? 

2 hours ago, RaduF86 said:

Are there any DTC stored when the car refuses to start? 

If you cleared all stored DTCs and the car was running fine, there should be no new ones.

Cleared all the old DTCs, no new ones appear even though the problem has occurred many times. 

1 hour ago, RayC333 said:

This problem seems to be elusive. I noted a few things from the discussion. No DTC's, oldish car, battery sort of ok, has a start button, multiple presses to start but will eventually start.

Could the problem be as simple as needing a new start button? 

Could be, I guess. Or clutch switch? 

43 minutes ago, ElCani said:

Could be, I guess. Or clutch switch? 

If it were me I would try the start switch. Maybe a cheap used one off eBay. Although not a Ford, my daughter chased a starting problem on her Honda HRV for months. Was the switch.

I wouldn't suspect the clutch switch. My 2012 Focus starts without doing anything to the clutch.

45 minutes ago, RayC333 said:

I wouldn't suspect the clutch switch. My 2012 Focus starts without doing anything to the clutch.

Is it keyless start?  It should require a clutch press if so.  I had 2 early Mk3's that both required a clutch press.  Plus a keyless Mk2.5 the same.

22 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Is it keyless start?  It should require a clutch press if so.  I had 2 early Mk3's that both required a clutch press.  Plus a keyless Mk2.5 the same.

Mine is a keyless start. Will check tomorrow - perhaps I'm pressing the clutch without realising it 🤔 Edit: Yes, I do press it! 🤭