Hi all,

Hoping to get some suggestions about electrical problems with a 2005 Fusion 2 1.6 TDCI - likely / typical faults or at least what to check.

I've been having charging system problems for a little while; the alternator light comes on and goes off intermittently and at random, but the vehicle still seems to be charging OK.

Last week on the way back from work the electrics went haywire towards the end of the 35 mile journey. First the airbag light came on, then the brake warning and ABS lights started coming on and going off at random, the electronic power steering started playing up (no assistance or over-assisted) and what the wipers were doing bore no relation to the switch position. However the car was still running OK, it was just the ancillary systems playing up.

I nursed the car home and as it was raining checked it the next day, but couldn't find a problem, and it started and drove fine. I must admit I put it down to water getting in - it was horrible weather that day with torrential rain at times - but I wasn't entirely convinced, and yesterday toward the end of an 18 mile journey the EPS started playing up again, so there's still something going on.

Alternator drive belt appears in good condition and tight. Battery voltage with everything off is 12.63V and the car starts and runs fine. Running at 1500 rpm the system voltage at the battery is 14.1 - 14.5 volts though it is fluctuating more than I'd expect. At 2000 rpm with a load on (headlights full, heater fan full, heated rear window on) system voltage is 13.7 - 13.9 volts, again fluctuating a bit. I can't see any problems in the fuse box and the alternator three pin plug does not appear to be corroded. I don't have a diagnostic scanner so can't check fault codes (unless there's a way of reading them from the dash?)

I've had a look round but apart from posts about charging problems I can't find anything. The only thing I can point a finger at from this is the alternator or smart charge, but I don't see why a charging fault would cause all the other issues when system voltages appear fairly normal. I'd be grateful for any thoughts or pointers, or other / systematic checks. Thanks.

Could be a failing alternator, i had problems with the 3 pin control plug being corroded at cable entry and not on the pins themselves.

As you say the control plug looks ok, i would be looking a possible bad chassis earth problem at this stage, then onto Forscan diagnostics.

Morning, thanks.

I'm finding it difficult to inspect the earths because everything's so tight in the engine bay, but the connections to the battery look to be in good condition, checking earth resistances from the engine block, head and various points on the body to the -ve terminal on the battery shows 0 - 0.1 ohms, and the engine turns over as well as it has always done on the starter, so I'm inclined to think the earths are OK.

I did notice there is a piece of kit that clips into the battery surround, behind the battery, that had come unclipped and I've relocated it; I'm not sure what it is but it's not obvious it could be causing a problem anyway.

I don't have Forscan or an OBDII reader though would consider getting one (preferably universal rather than Ford specific); is there a particular recommendation?

I wasn't sure whether to cross-post this to the Focus or Fiesta forums as I think the electrics are the same - is that acceptable?

Is the piece of kit directly behind the battery the engine compartment fuse box - it might be worth investigating.

Hi Paul, thanks. No, it's not the engine bay fuse box; it's a module that sits between that and the battery. It has a large positive cable going into it direct from the battery terminal, and some small cables coming out underneath. Not sure what it is. I will have a look in the engine bay fuse box though, if I can work out how to get the cover off!

We have Fiesta and a Fusion, but both 1.6 petrol. If the diesel is similar in layout. the other box might be the engine relays, and there is a big multiway plug, a plastic cover with a bolt holding it in position.  I've never removed it, but again might be worth a gander.  

I think I need to look at all of this in case - so far I've just checked the main fuse box.

It's the unit circled in red under the battery clamp, in this bad snip from a YouTube video. Battery to the right, and I think the box to the left which I assumed was fuses might be relays?

http://ci.catcar.info/ford_2017_01/euro/11120/d010140414.png

This is a diagram - 4180120 - from CatCar https://www.catcar.info/ford/?lang=en .

The squarish box is the relay box, 14A068B,

with 14A068A looking like the engine fuse box

•  Fiesta 01-08/Fusion CBK 2001-2012
•  
•  4 Electrical
•  
•  41801 Electrical.Wiring System & Related Parts
•  
•  4180120 Fuses, Holders And Circuit Breakers

That slim box is the large engine bay fuses. 

 

Looks similar to this inside.

 

Hello Paul, Tom, thanks. I was thinking about this on the way to work and worked out that it must be the engine bay fuse box, having seen photos like the ones Tom posted. Paul, those links are useful, thankyou.

I did a 70 mile, 2 hour round trip to work and back today and the car behaved impeccably throughout, though the charge warning light is still on.

As the alternator seems to be charging OK I think the warning light must be an issue with the smart charge system, but I still don't know what the crazy electrics were all about. I think the next step is probably to examine the engine bay fuse box and relay box for issues and check the 3 wire alternator plug again.

the alternator charge (battery light on dash) will illuminate permanently if fuse blows in fuse panel behind glove box, this supplies the 12v + line to one of the cables on the three pin alt plug.

Off top off my head its a 6a fuse ?

Fuse 28 - 3A I think, accordingto my decal on back of glove box.

So ... checked the engine bay fuse box and relay box. No signs of corrosion or damage, the fuse and cable connections are all tight, and the fuses are good (checked continuity across the connection studs). I've made sure the fuse box is seated correctly, but it's difficult to see that as the cause.

I also checked the main fuse box again. The alternator feed is Fuse 28 and it is 3A. All appears good, no sign of water or corrosion, all relevant fuses are good (visual & continuity test).

It's also done a 70 mile and a 40 mile round trip, and some local journeys, and apart from the charge light being on is behaving itself.

I'd thought of the electrics going haywire as an effect of the charge fault that was already there, but I can't think how, and I'm now wondering whether the two are separate. I think the alternator itself is probably fine as it seems to revert to normal operation when the charge light is on, so next steps are probably investigate the smart charge system again, maybe replace the three pin plug as a precaution, and get a fault code reader and see what I've got. Any recommendations for a fault code reader?

On 9/14/2024 at 10:40 AM, Mr Crabbs said:

Any recommendations for a fault code reader?

 

On 4/7/2024 at 8:59 PM, unofix said:

FORScan (for use with Windows Laptop) : https://forscan.org/download.html

It's what many Ford owners use including some Ford technicians.

vLinker FS, cable for laptop: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-vLinker-Adapter-FORScan-MS-CAN/dp/B0952P4MLP

vLinker FD, for android phone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-Bluetooth-vLinker-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B08H82WC8L

vLinker FD+, for iPhone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Vgate-Bluetooth-vLinker-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B08H8JHWP2

 

Search Tag:   FORScan123

 

On 9/8/2024 at 10:22 AM, Mr Crabbs said:

I put it down to water getting in - it was horrible weather that day with torrential rain at times

Purely as an observation -

We have a 2010 Fusion and 2007 Fiesta, ie of the same ilk, both with 1.6 petrol.  The engine and the underbonnet of the Fusion get filthy in the rain, but the Fiesta stays reasonably clean. To me this suggests that the airflow through the Fusion engine compartment sucks up a lot of spray and muck......  This might have affected the electrics ?

Paul, don't know. This one doesn't seem to get filthy in rain, and the journey to work is on some pretty horrible country roads, but the day it played up there was torrential rain while it was parked at work, rain and spray on the way home, and I later found the drains for the windscreen scuttle were blocked enough to mean water could have been going elssewhere. I felt blaming water was grapsing at straws, but now the weather's drier it's behaving, so maybe it could be.

Unofix, thanks. Need to understand a bit more what's the best thing to get for universal applications, I want to do other stuff than Ford.

There isn't a best diag for all cars.  Much better off getting manufacturer spec tools for each brand that you need.  I used to use Forscan, PP2K and VCDS regularly.  I did also have a couple of generic tools, neither of those were much use in the majorityof faults.

If you get a Forscan adapter, that will probably allow you to read the generic OBD codes on other brands.

14 hours ago, Mr Crabbs said:

drains for the windscreen scuttle were blocked

As we have significant tree cover over our drive, I have to clean out the leaves in the windscreen scuttles on the FIesta and Fusion every year, especially the ventilation inlet area !

5 hours ago, Paulkp said:

As we have significant tree cover over our drive, I have to clean out the leaves in the windscreen scuttles on the FIesta and Fusion every year, especially the ventilation inlet area !

Been there done that repeatedly, and it's parked under trees at work.

On 9/17/2024 at 8:03 PM, TomsFocus said:

There isn't a best diag for all cars

No, you're probably right - generic tends to mean generic codes only which as you say often aren't a lot of use. The only all purpose ones I've seen before are the high end garage tool supplier ones where you can buy add-ins for different manufacturers, but they're ££££ and more for the software.

Haven't progressed any further, except that on Saturday the brake warning and ABS lights came on after a heavy downpour, which maybe reinforces the idea of water getting in ...

Almost certainly water ingress to the GEM

Hi all,

So after another six weeks or so, including two 600+ mile round trips and 140 miles a week to work, the erratic electrics problem hasn't repeated. Either I fixed something by accident in the investigation, or it was water ingress that hasn't re-occurred; and the weather has certianly been dryer, or at least we haven't had the torrential downpours.

I've still got the charge warning light on, but that hadn't happened at quite the same time anyway. It's charging properly, even with lights, wipers, HRW etc. on, but the charge rate still fluctuates between 14.1 and 14.7 volts so I am going to look for another alternator. If that doesn't fix it I'll assume there's a smart charge problem.

Thanks for all your help and advice with this.