Hi All

 

just had to create a new account as I couldn't get into my old one.

 

need some urgent urgent help please. I parked in a multi story last night for my work do. got back to the car, and its not starting, its trying to fire, but not starting. jumped battery. but not that. checked cam while someone presed the start button, and its not turning, so I'm guessing I either snapped the timing belt, or broke the cam. neither is good.

 

main issue now is that its stuck in a multi story in high Wycombe. first, I need to get it out of park (dial selector) which I think is ignition on, brake and accelerator to floor, then into neutral? this would allow it to get out of the parking bay. I have battery power, so I can release the handbrake (but would have no power steering). so, can I tow the car if I lock it in neutral? (conflicting info on the web). car park is only 2m height, so most break down trucks wont get in there

 

please please please give me some info if you have it, I just want the car home so I can assess the damage.

 

thanks

Andy

Your handbook should/may confirm how/if possible to tow but if you can get into neutral then can you get it out by towing around the anticipated sharp turns with another car?

OR get a group of friends to push (all downhill?)?

DANGER no power steering or braking!

Once out, could be recovered?

usually its a total no no to tow any automatic - on rear drive cars the pump that sends lube round the box is driven off the torque converter -

dual clutch manual isn't an auto (no idea as above check the manual)  - on real auto boxes its likely they did the same on FWD and you'll damage the box (possibly completely) if you tow it

this is yet another reason you MUST be a member of a breakdown service - any UK car that stops on a main road will get towed by plod and will cost >£400 to have your broken down car back... yet you can join cheap ones for £50 quid a year....

4 hours ago, Andy777 said:

which I think is ignition on, brake and accelerator to floor, then into neutral? this would allow it to get out of the parking bay. I have battery power

Instructions on how to put the car in to neutral and keep it there is in the owners hand book.

https://www.ford.co.uk/support/vehicle/focus-2018/2019/owner-manuals

You can only tow the vehicle a SHORT distance while in neutral. If the battery becomes low the car will put the transmission back in to park and lock the wheels. Careful use of 'keep in neutral' should enable the car to be removed from the car park. Do not tow on the public road.

desperate and urgent help needed

Glad we were able to help 👍

Oh wait a minute, it looks like you never came back to read the replies, that's a bit off !!

unofix, I didn't get back for a while, but shaming with a post is not really on is it? (unless it makes you feel really big and important?) its been a busy day with a lot of stress and a busted car, so do try and be the nice guy rather than jumping in with snarky comments, and nice little photoshopped arrows on the screen shot.... really?

for everyone else, I joined the AA and therefore had to travel back to the car park to meet them.

so, here's the info in case it helps someone else later. car did not go into neutral with the brake / accelerator press, it did show neutral, but the car actually stayed in park and couldn't be pushed at all. nice AA guy looked it up on his system, and had to manually remove and move the selector on top of the gear box and pin it in neutral to get it to move. (2019 focus needs this to be done apparently, Ford supply a pin for this in the car tool kit) battery was a bit flat so he boosted that for me as well. got a solid towbar on, and he managed to tow me down the spiral and out of the car park. Note here: most AA trucks are 2.1m high, but lower below the 2m car park height when they have the towing dolly stowed in the back. there are only a couple of UK car parks they cannot get into.

so, we got out and he then put the car on the towing dolly and towed it back to my house, dropped it and we got it pushed onto the drive. he had a bit of a look, as he was interested, and we found that the timing belt is intact, and everything rotates when turning over, we do get gas chuffing out of the oil filler hole though. he was very interested and did some searching and found something (on here i think) about there being a chain connected to the cam, and the timing belt pully, as it looks like this has failed. Apparently Ford designed the engine so the valves would not get bent if they hit the pistons (they are perpendicular rather than angled) so it will have broken a bunch of parts in the head (followers and cams) rather than damaging everything. this is why the car is trying to fire, as the undamaged parts are still doing what they are supposed to.

As and when I start looking at it all, I will try and get a how to document together to help others, and to show what the issues were and the damage it caused.

Andy

 

21 minutes ago, Andy777 said:

unofix, I didn't get back for a while, but shaming with a post is not really on is it? (unless it makes you feel really big and important?) its been a busy day with a lot of stress and a busted car, so do try and be the nice guy rather than jumping in with snarky comments, and nice little photoshopped arrows on the screen shot.... really?

Do I care what you think NO !!!

What p155es me off is people "desperate and urgent help needed" and myself and other taking the time to try and help and finding out 8 hours later you haven't even checked back to see if anyone has replied.

You are just one of many who do this on a daily bases, so yes I'm somewhat annoyed, and clearly my post has annoyed you. I won't loose any sleep over you tonight and have now added you to my ignore list so feel free to say whatever you want about me since I won't be reading it.

12 hours ago, Andy777 said:

he was very interested and did some searching and found something (on here i think) about there being a chain connected to the cam, and the timing belt pully, as it looks like this has failed. Apparently Ford designed the engine so the valves would not get bent if they hit the pistons (they are perpendicular rather than angled) so it will have broken a bunch of parts in the head (followers and cams) rather than damaging everything. this is why the car is trying to fire, as the undamaged parts are still doing what they are supposed to.

 

If this is the 1.5 diesel engine, then the timing belt drives the one camshaft, and there is a chain at the other end of the camshafts that connects them to drive the other camshaft.

It is fairly common for this chain to fail, and later engines use a heavier duty chain/sprockets to try to get round the problem.

If you have a look on Peugeot Forums there is lots on there about this failure problem, and I think there was some talk of a lawsuit against the manufacturer. The 1.5 diesel is used in a wide selection of vehicles, Peugeot, Citroen, Ford, and Vauxhall/Opel, and probably quite a few more!

cheers Alan, Et Al. I see (or I think I do) that this is the same engine used in a lot of vehicles, and there's more info out there and videos on other makes. looking around looks like I need to kit with new casting, cams, chain, tensioner and maybe a bunch of rocker arms, if they have broken, as designed to do. (I'll be putting on a new timing belt , pump etc as a matter of course as I work my way through everything) I won't know until I get a little deeper into the engine. so far Ive started taking stuff off the top, and now looking to depressurise the fuel system to hopefully remove the injectors. obviously cannot run the car to release pressure and use fuel, so I'll have to try and loosen a union and wrap it in rags to catch the diesel as it depressurises. I'm hoping to get the top cover off today so I have an idea of the internal damage, then I can look at with starting the repair in earnest, or getting another 'interim' car to tide me over while I take my time getting this fixed.

I'll try to keep this thread running as I go, in case it helps others along the way, as there is very little helpful info out there (that I can find). it wont be on a strict schedule, as I have a life as well, but I'll do what I can.

Andy

You will probably find the fuel system has already lost it's pressure, as the volume of fuel in the rail & injectors is quite small. Just loosen one of the injector pipes, and that will release any remaining pressure.

latest update, everything is now in bits and I can share the following with you

Chain has broken and destroyed the tensioner. also broken off a little bit of the cam housing. However, both cams are intact (showing a little wear, but this is 78K miles so pretty good), as are all the rocker arms, and it looks like the valves are OK. I have measured each valve stem height from the head and they are all within 0.3mm of each other, which I ill take as a win. new timing kit, water pump, cams,, covers and 8mm chain all ordered, fuel filter, oil filter, oil and a bunch of gaskets all ordered in as well. rebuilding may start tomorrow if I can find out all the torque settings and bolt tightening sequences

.

If I was doing this job, before I started rebuilding it, I would try to put low pressure air into each injector hole, which would confirm that the valves aren't bent if air pressure builds up.

Of course, to do this you need access to a compressor etc.

Good luck!

I'm taking a punt on it being OK, nothing to lose other than time. engine is mostly back together now, just waiting for fuel filter, timing belt and water pump, and a few gaskets. I'll hopefully slap it together over the weekend and see what is what. main reason I surmise all is ok with the valves is that the inlet side was still timed up with the crank, so none of those could have been bent. if the valves on the exhaust side had taken a knock, it should show as different Heights on the valve stems, as not all of them would have impacted. a calculated risk. if they are bent, I'll just strip it all down again, just a little further this time

10 hours ago, Andy777 said:

I'm taking a punt on it being OK, nothing to lose other than time. engine is mostly back together now, just waiting for fuel filter, timing belt and water pump, and a few gaskets. I'll hopefully slap it together over the weekend and see what is what. main reason I surmise all is ok with the valves is that the inlet side was still timed up with the crank, so none of those could have been bent. if the valves on the exhaust side had taken a knock, it should show as different Heights on the valve stems, as not all of them would have impacted. a calculated risk. if they are bent, I'll just strip it all down again, just a little further this time

You have been very lucky if that is the case.  I can't see how neither valves nor rockers could be damaged in this situation.  The fact that half the engine was still being turned over (albeit slowly on the starter) makes that even less likely, as the engine should have locked if any exhaust valves were still open.

Are the cams 'fixed' to the shaft on this engine?  We've recently discovered that they are not fixed on the earlier 1.6 TDCI engine, and can get twisted when pistons hit valves.  Definitely worth double checking the lobes are all facing the right way while it's still apart.

not sure if the cams are fixed. after talking to a parts retailer, he said they often don't see damage (other that the chain) as the camshaft rolls to a neutral position when the chain goes (so none of the lobes are fully pressing the valves)

My inlet cam was still timed in and turning with the crank. engine turned over freely on the crank bolt before disassembly. once I put the new Cam unit on (new casing, cams, chain and tensioner) it turned over well, and everything timed back in ok after 6 turns. once I put the injectors back in, there was a definite increase in pressure required to turn the engine, and you could feel the release as each cylinder exhausted, then pressure built again until the next ex valve opened.

I have many error code issues now (I have started a separate thread) which are stopping me from testing it any further, but, I'll keep everybody updated if I manage to get those sorted. I have all photos for the 'how to' to help, others (and to hopefully give an idea of the full damage) but I need to get her going again first to check nothing is wrong deeper in the engine.

Andy

just to wrap things up for now, my car is back on the road and running well. new cam housing, cams, chain, tensioner, timing kit, water pump, gaskets, bolts, coolant, oil and filters.

started after many non starts, and has been behaving well since then. seemingly no damage to the valves, no smoke, good power, just like before the hiccup. hopefully this will be an ongoing situation!

thank you for all the constructive help that was offered, you all helped me navigate a very stressful time, and we got there in the end.

cheers

Andy