Hi all,

I've noticed a grinding sound when starting and moving my 2013 Focus MK3 on cold startup. Car has done roughly 65k miles if that helps.

It appears to be when steering but could be related to slight acceleration when pulling away. After a few metres it will stop and the car will behave normally.

There's no stuttering or issue with the steering and it only does it on first startup, particularly when the weather has been cold or damp.

One difference I've found is that when the car was fully loaded with 5 in the car, it seemed to make the sound for longer - maybe due to the additional "strain" of carrying more weight? However, after driving up the road for about half a mile the sound stopped again.

It sounds like if a fan blade was getting stuck or something is the best way I can describe it, or that metal is rubbing somewhere - it's a very metallic sounding noise.

The car hasn't had any recent work done - the last fix was the steering fluid bottle which had cracked and was leaking fluid. The garage didn't note or change anything else, though the car was making this similar noise back then but only on occasion. Before they found the steering fluid bottle leak, I had originally asked them to check the starter motor and they found no issues there.

Any thoughts what it could be or what I could check myself before getting a garage involved?

Thanks in advance!

lots are saying this

you can help clear up whether its rusty brake discs or not - these days its so damp and miserable discs get properly rusty on the braking surfaces within a few days of being parked up

is this a daily driver where the brakes are used hard or an occasional twice a week one driven gently ? if so next time you take it out - look at the brakes and see if they are rusty before you move off - even park on a slope and roll off without the engine running and see if you get the same noises

alternatively - I had an omega that had rubber gaiters on the suspension - light rust would build up on the damper body and the gaiter would grind it off for the first half mile - did it on both cars over 20 years and 100k miles - never an issue just a bit of noise over the first 3 speed bumps every drive if it was raining last drive or damp and miserable outside - my S class does both the damper and the brake noises every drive in the damp and that was £140K when some idiot bought it new

Possibly a stone trapped between the disc and backing plate ??

Jack up the front wheels separately and spin the wheel by hand forwards and then backwards and you might hear it ??

Thanks both! Now that I think about it, it seems to be more of a continuous sound - a bit like if a belt is loose and makes the "t-t-t" sound with a slight squeak.

I'll try to get a recording and share it on here. It also seems to tie in with the fact it gets better after the engine has warmed up a bit?

I haven't noticed any issues with braking power and I had the front discs replaced fairly recently.

It's not a daily driver. I only use it at weekends since I commute to work by train. Not driven hard by any means - usually a short trip to town or sometimes for a family day out. No more than 30 miles a week on average at a guess.

What engine does it have?

1 hour ago, AntonovAN12 said:

What engine does it have?

It's the petrol 1.6 TI-VCT.

drive belts for alternators, water pumps and AC compressor can all make a massive racket

loads of factors alter exactly which side is creating the noise

an old dry belt that losts its flexibility can make noises from either side - if you drive in salty weather you can get light rust on the drive (toothed) side, as this builds over the years and the belt ages, a little slip is often noticed with a small screech as start up as the belt slips and often a chirp can be heard at switch off - wash all the crap out go for a drive to get the water out

other noises can be friction driven racket as the other side of the belt fights to squirm around idler pulleys

as above old belts slip and are nosier... a bit of silicon lube on the outside will help over idlers and harder to believe an occasional squirt on the drive side with silicone spray tend to

1) keep the belt supple
2) keep rust at bay
3) actually help the belt grip

other NVH can be the worn over speed clutch on the alternator pulley

 

Ok I tried to record a video but it was quite late in the day so it didn't make the usual whine or squeak. However, I did find this video on YouTube which sounds very similar.

 

I've read that this could be the clutch or dual mass flywheel? Also apparently if it's the flywheel then the starter motor can be affected?

https://youtu.be/JQHf46x40VA?si=w03R5Hqav3qhRINZ

I'll try to get a recording of my own car sometime to pinpoint the issues.

I take it that I can't really use the car in this state without causing further damage?

Hi there,

Typically the weather hasn't been wet enough in the mornings for me to get a decent recording of it happening (or to any great extent anyway). Here is what I've managed to get so far - there is a slight "grinding" noise a few seconds in but it normally "whines" a lot more than this.

Thanks!

I notice the squealing noise at 0:06 seconds when you have the steering wheel on full lock.

My Mk2 1.6 also does this, especially in cold weather.

The garage/MOT test centre I usually use said it could be the auxiliary belt slipping. This is due to the power steering pump pulley having more resistance with the wheel at full lock.

2 minutes ago, AntonovAN12 said:

I notice the squealing noise at 0:06 seconds when you have the steering wheel on full lock.

My Mk2 1.6 also does this, especially in cold weather.

The garage/MOT test centre I usually use said it could be the auxiliary belt slipping. This is due to the power steering pump pulley having more resistance with the wheel at full lock.

Ah ok good to know, thanks! I tend to use full lock when manoeuvring out of our street parking as everyone is usually so close together.

Does your garage usually say it's of any concern?

I'm still fairly sure there is a clutch/flywheel issue as the other sounds I've heard match up. I have it booked in for quotes at 2 garages I've used before in the next couple of weeks so I should know more by then either way hopefully.

39 minutes ago, Shoxt3r said:

Does your garage usually say it's of any concern?

Hopefully the cause of the squeal is simply the aux belt hardening with age.

If the aux belt snaps, the alternator will no longer be turning so the not charging warning light on the dashboard will light.

The steering will also become a lot heavier as the power steering pump is no longer being driven.

The water pump will also no longer be driven, so it is best to pull over as soon as possible. No serious damage should occur if you stop and turn off the engine in reasonable time. The aux belt can simply be replaced as long as it doesn't catch anything else when it snaps.

The timing belt on my car is due soon. The aux belt has to be removed to change the timing belt, so a new aux belt will be fitted at the same time.

 

 

1 hour ago, AntonovAN12 said:

The garage/MOT test centre I usually use said it could be the auxiliary belt slipping. This is due to the power steering pump pulley having more resistance with the wheel at full lock.

All very true for a Mk2 Focus. 👍

The Mk3 has electric power steering. The motor is mounted directly on the steering rack.

44 minutes ago, unofix said:

All very true for a Mk2 Focus. 👍

The Mk3 has electric power steering. The motor is mounted directly on the steering rack.

From what I have read, the Mk3 1.6 Ti-VCT still had a belt driven hydraulic power steering pump.

 

Ah right I see - I don't think the aux belt replacement would be needed then as the belts were all changed as part of a service about 3-4 years ago at around 46,500 miles - car has done about 20,000 miles since then.

Quote when it was done in June 2021:

"To carry out a full service including timing belt and water pump replacement [...] This would include new engine oil, oil filter, air filter, spark plugs, timing belt kit(including tensioners, rollers and belt), water pump, fresh coolant and all the checks and inspections usually carried out on a full service."

The timing belt kit for this engine doesn't usually include the aux belt.

I recently enquired about timing belt replacement on my Mk2. Not everywhere replaces the aux belt unless you specifically ask them to. It isn't mentioned on your list of the parts that were replaced.

After 3.5 years and 20k miles, even a new belt could have slightly stretched or hardened.

 

Hi all,

I dropped the car along to the local garage for a second opinion last night and they started it several times today from a cold start and didn't find any issues initially.

They then took it for a drive and noticed a faint whining sound while driving in first and second which they've potentially put down to the gearbox being on the way out (but not any time soon). They've advised that I monitor it and go from there, and suggested that they can change the gearbox oil/transmission fluid to boost the longevity of the gearbox. The gearbox is apparently in good condition otherwise though - no problems with changing gear in their opinion.

They said that my car doesn't have a Dual Mass Flywheel and that the noise wouldn't be attributed to the clutch, especially as there is no juddering or any other symptoms.

The mechanic did say that they had tried to drain the gearbox oil to inspect it but realised that this wasn't possible with my car's setup as they would need to disconnect the driveshaft and tilt the system so that it drained into a clean container which is a big job. He did, however, drain a very small amount of the fluid and inspected it and didn't find any metallic fragments in it so that was a good sign apparently.

The garage have offered to provide a quote for a full drain and refresh of the gearbox oil/transmission fluid which they are going to send over to me on Monday.

Annoyingly it hasn't made the same sound during startup for a few weeks, so I'm at a bit of a loss to be honest...
Any thoughts on that or anything else I could check out?

Thanks!

go buy a can of silicon lubricate spray...  open the bonnet start the car - spray an atomised cloud from 10" away in the general area of the aux belt for 5 seconds - if the noise stops, shut the bonnet and forget about everything