Is it usual to replace the crankshaft rear main oil seal when the clutch is replaced? Engine is a 1.6 Petrol. 

I am asking this as I recently had my clutch replaced. I bought a rear main oil seal from Ford before taking the car in. 

I told them to only fit it if there was any sign that it was leaking. If not, leave the original in place. 

Unfortunately this message was not properly passed on. When I collected the car, they said they had replaced the seal even though inside the bellhousing was dry. 

They claimed it is good practise to change the seal anyway while the gearbox is removed. I would have preferred it to be left alone if not leaking. 

I was planning to return the unused seal for a refund if it was not needed. 

I'd say that, when you're down that far, providing care is taken during the fitting process, the seal should definitely be replaced.
If it started to leak a short time after you would be disappointed (kicking yourself)?

The other option if it doesn't need a new clutch and you have an engine oil leak from that type of seal, is to use Stop Leak.
Only thing is that they didn't follow your instructions or discuss with you what their normal procedure was and, for future reference that needs to be addressed however in my opinion, I don't believe they can be faulted for changing it.

To add another chapter to this sorry tale, one of the driveshaft seals now appears leaking. 

As well as the crankshaft oil seal, I supplied a seal for the gearbox input shaft. I told them this when I dropped off the car, and to only replace it if was leaking. 

This seal is identical to the driveshaft seals, and has the same part number. 

When I collected the car, I was told that I had only given them one driveshaft seal.

They had gone ahead and fitted this to the driver's side driveshaft with the support bearing. Neither of these seals were leaking when I took the car in. 

I drove the car today, and oil now seems to be leaking from between the outside of this driveshaft seal and the gearbox casting. If they had listened to what I said, this wouldn't have happened. 

Replacing it means the cost of another seal (£20) and 2 litres of gearbox oil wasted at £13.49 per litre. 

They said at the start that they could not guarantee the work as I supplied the parts. 

As well as all this, the chap behind the parts counter I bought the seal from didn't know what an input shaft seal was. I had to point it out to him on the computer screen. 

This is a sad tale and for our cambelt change I discussed the parts to be fitted.

I wanted to buy a cheaper kit but agreed with the garage that they would fit one from Gates (Tier 1 supplier and their chosen one) otherwise they could not provide any warranty. This was sensible and reasonable and both sides knew what was to be done.

Whilst there has been some waste in your case, it appears a relatively small problem (much smaller than having to split the engine and gearbox again?) but another example of communication breakdown which needs to be avoided in future?

If you want a job done properly, do it yourself!  If you can't do it yourself for any reason, just put up with it.  Don't let a 'professional' attempt anything, it'll end up worse! 🤬

Regarding shaft seals, they often leak after they've been disturbed.  So it is good practice to replace both the input shaft seal and the driveshaft seals while the gearbox is removed.  I would always buy genuine seals for this, after a well know car parts supplier sent the wrong size seal which I supplied to the garage the first time I needed a clutch.  They didn't check the size before fitting or filling.  Ended up refitting the old seal and topping up with a different gear oil.  I have never had a garage do a clutch again since.  Or let that an aftermarket supplier provide seals.  Did several clutches for myself and others back in the day.  Couldn't do it now though.  Would rather scrap the car and buy another than let a garage work on it tbh!

The seal came from a Ford Parts Plus outlet. The worst part is that the seal is not leaking where the shaft runs through it, but from around its outside edge. If I hadn't given them the seals, none of this would have happened. 

As I live in a property with no driveway, I don't have anywhere I could attempt to do a clutch change myself. I would also have to remove and re-fit the gearbox while lying under the car.

I know someone who did it this way on a Mk1 Focus. They said they regretted it once the box was out and they knew they still had to get it back in. 

 

 

No need to justify it to me, as I say I couldn't do it myself now.  So would either put up with the fault or scrap it.  Every time I let 'professionals' get involved they just make things worse and at more cost.

Genuinely reached the point where I don't understand how anything ever gets completed nowadays.  Thought I was just unlucky but watch any car resto program or house program and they're often having to waste time to fix faults caused by professionals.  They're probably the same ones that are moaning about 'difficult customers' on social media all the time.  If you're getting a lot of difficult customers, perhaps the customer IS right...  

The IB5 gearbox isn't that heavy.  But I did get a 6 speed Peugeot 'box stuck on the floor once, just didn't have the strength to get it back up myself.  Two people offered to help and then didn't even turn up.  Eventually a third did help and we got it back in.  Still probably less hassle than letting a garage touch it.

I checked and topped up the gearbox oil level. It had lost around 1/4 (500ml) over 80 miles in the course of a week. 

The car has only been used for local journeys in that time. The shifting still feels the same and no grinding noises. 

Hopefully no major damage caused. 

500ml over 80 miles is one serious leak and it may be too much for this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/335149993701
Haven't used that exact product but have had success with engine stop leak on multiple cars.
If the rubber can swell enough it will reduce or stop it, it it's a gasket flange leak or badly fitted seal, it obviously won't.

I took the car back to the same place today. 

They put it on the lift and cleared the leaking oil off with brake cleaner. 

They then lifted the front wheels, and let the wheels turn at idle with the engine running for around 20 minutes. 

The leak appears to be coming from inside the bellhousing and draining through the drain hole. It had been blowing back to the driveshaft seal area. 

I saw them do all this in person. 

They haven't touched the input shaft main seal.

There is also no way to over fill this gearbox as it cannot be filled above the level of the filler hole. I saw them filling the oil on the day the clutch was changed. 2 litres of new oil went in until level with the bottom of the hole.

 

The lower edge of the filler plug is not the oil level. The prescribed oil level is 5 to 10 mm below the lower edge of the filler plug. 

So if the gearbox is filled to the lower edge of the filler plug it is actually overfilled. This however should not cause any leaks from the input shaft seal.


Oil seals are subjected to deterioration and ageing. During time the rubber material looses its flexibility. It is not uncommon for old seals to start leaking after the transmission is removed/re-installed. A bit of wiggling to get the transmission back into place can easily cause an old oil seal to fail.

Therefore, it is strongly recommended to replace the oil seals once the transmission is removed. Especially on a 20 Year old vehicle.

I checked the gearbox oil level again this week. It had not dropped at all after being topped up.

However the engine oil level has dropped. It now seems that the crankshaft oil seal was incorrectly fitted and is now leaking. What I first assumed was gearbox oil looks to be engine oil.

This is even more annoying as this seal wasn't leaking before I took the car in. If I hadn't given them the seals in the first place, I wouldn't be in this situation. 

I contacted a Ford service centre. They say they can remove the gearbox, replace the seal and re-fit in 3.1 hours. 

That is less than the place that initially did the clutch that quoted 5 hours labour. The cost for the seal to be changed by Ford seems to work out about the same as the independent. 

I now suspect that the gearbox was actually under-filled which caused my initial confusion. 

Oil from the leak and engine oil from the dipstick look exactly the same on clean white kitchen towel.