simcor Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 As some may have read I have had problems with my car for a while. Replaced the turbo core and now stuck on a new EGR valve, with the connector on the EGR solenoid it runs like a bag of excrement and i'm loosing boost. With the plug off it boosts much better but I am still getting black smoke. I am getting a hissing noise like air escaping from somewhere but I cant track it down, you can hear it at the start of this video. MOT in two weeks and I need to figure out where it is coming from. Sounds like it is coming from down the back of the engine more to the middle or right as you face the engine. http://vid934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/simcor_/WP_20150711_12_27_18_Pro.mp4 Any ideas please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezwez Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 could you blow some smoke down there to see where it sucks it in or blows it away see Scott Kilmer do it on a video youtube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 that's a good idea on the smoke! ill need to remember that, can you take the video again but go a lot slower start from the fuel filter come across the top of the manifold up to the EGR inlet, then follow the EGR inlet down to the cooler then back up to the EGR valve, then try going along the edge of the manifold where it meets the block at the back. the sound of the air is pressurised and by quite a bit by the sound of it, backed up by the black smoke I reckon your air is leaking either from the manifold seals or more likely its coming down the EGR cooler and escaping there, with the EGR valve connected and thus open its probably having a hard time competing with what it expects to be going on and what is going on, when its closed your air is escaping and making the engine run rich but otherwise normal, normally air wouldn't go back down to the cooler but if its leaking a lot and with in being pressurised, it will find the easiest way out... that's a guess tho, but it sounds good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Interesting theory indeed. I should have said it does sound more like a sucking noise possibly although it does sound like a hiss on the video, it's also louder when listening to it rather than the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 11, 2015 Author Share Posted July 11, 2015 Cant really be bothered to do it right now spent most the day getting down and dirty with this !Removed! car again, but will try and get it done tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Hmm, I can't think why it would be sucking, for that to happen where ever the air is coming from must be higher pressure then where its going too, the whole system is supposed to be positive pressure meaning it would always blow out, well after the turbo anyway. Unless its behaving like a paint sprayer, air passed the EGR hole at a certain angle and reduces the pressure inside it which causes the air outside to be sucked in, normally it would help suck gas out of the ego system. So there you go, two completely different theories, I have no idea which is true but the physics supports both depending on how the aerodynamics of it all works, but anyhow my money is still on the EGR system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I have done another video but my phone battery was low so might be a bit rubbish again, however it does not sound as loud today. I also notice on the first video towards the end the noise almost stops completely, what did I do that made it almost disapear, i have no idea lol http://vid934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/simcor_/WP_20150712_10_13_06_Pro.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezwez Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 at 00.32 of the video sounds like that braded hose may have a leak in it sounds louder there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John2015 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 It's a funny one its ticking over nice but that air noise is there have you checked the turbo pipe from the air filter to the turbo for splits mine had a small split under neath Sent from my iPad using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 Its clear there is a noise coming from that end near the fuel filter end, checking the pipe from the filter to the turbo Si a good idea, mine split just before it meets the turbo a while back, id over tightened it and it tore its self apart. Get some soapy water on the joins on the EGR valve, both sides of it, then do the same where it joins the cooler, both sides, its then a single pipe up to the inlet manifold and it doesn't sound like its coming from there I use a small syringe to place it where I want, can add a small bit PVC tube for the hard to reach areas, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 12, 2015 Author Share Posted July 12, 2015 I have had the air filter to turbo pipe off several times and cant find any splits. I disconnected the MAF today and that has stopped a lot of the smoke in fact nearly all of it. However I plugged the EGR connnector back in and it wasn't struggling to boost. But after doing a DPF regen it now struggles to boost at lower revs again. Very weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Well I have done further investigation on this. With a much colder ambient air temp and the MAF and EGR connector plugged in I have observed the following. The engine sounds normal the horrible whistling/Hissing/blowing sucking air noise is gone and the car seems to boost much better. I am not currently getting an underboost DTC. However I am getting EGR control valve performance high and EGR valve stuck closed DTC. I have done a run with the oscilliscope running to see the MAP values and EGR values as in the below picture. However with everything connected up it billows black smoke out when accelerating hard or even gentle to medium acceleration. It also seems to have a stutter at just over 3K revs. So based on all that it has to be the EGR valve in my opinion, I bought an aftermarket part from eBay for £70 which has been rubbish as the error codes were present from fitting it, I bought an aftermarket part from Eurocarparts for £100 and that is also no good as it brings up the error codes. So my choice is to go to Fraud for a genuine EGR valve or try the better make from Eurocarparts at just over £200 as I think that is what will solve the issues, but it is an expensive gamble, I will be able to get a refund from Eurocarparts for the one I bought from them but no much I can do on the eBay one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 As you can see from the data stream I am getting no action from the EGR valve at all. I can't see any obvious wiring issues. I have reset the EGR valve adaptation's after fitting each of the EGR valves as IDS instructs you to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Ouch I was right about Fraud £316.08 inc vat for the EGR valve. It's a lot of money to test my theory. I just don't know whether to try the Valeo from Eurocarparts for £153.02 inc vat. The previous one I bought from Eurocarparts was a HAAS valve never heard of them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 I should add having checked the butterfly valve on the intake side for the EGR trhottle valve everything looks OK, but I found I had missed tightening up one jubilee clip off this to the plastic intake section. Having tightened that up the car drives much better now, but still getting the EGR DTC's and black smoke under acceleration. So it has to be the EGR valve I have bought yet again. It is the only thing that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 Arrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Changed the EGR valve and got rid of the error codes for that, so at least that is good, however........................ Still getting black smoke and starting to get Turbo underboost DTC again. Anyone got any ideas what I should check next, all hoses have been checked so many times there is no leak on the induction side or the opposite !Removed! side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 I just love talking to myself lol Oddly took it for a spin and the black smoke has cleared up, I was getting some grey smoke and that too seems to have mostly cleared. The only thing I did before I let it sit was clean the MAF, left it a while and then went for a drive. However although it seems better at lower revs boosting it seems to struggle more at higher revs, I also think it sounds noisier to drive. But I could just be making it all up. Could a gunked up MAF really have caused such a nightmare, I know they are generally a pain in the bum anyway especially for smoke and fuel economy. Fingers crossed I am really getting somewhere with it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Have you considered a blanking plate? Certainly work as a test if not a full resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 18, 2015 Author Share Posted July 18, 2015 I have thought about blanking it but the EGR is used during the regen process and I don't fancy !Removed! the DPF anymore than already do lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeebowhite Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 The egr is used all the time, but blanking it does not screw the dog don't sorry. The mk2 focus let's just say the dpf isn't all over great. It honestly don't do the dpf any harm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 maf can royally bugger it up, if the ECU isn't getting the right air to fuel mix then it'll run lean or rich, in your case its rich, my MAF is reporting around 117mg of air, some way more than yours is reporting. Try unplugging the MAF and see if it is any better. I'd still have the EGR blanked off asap, theres no need for it on the DPF side and it helps rule out some stuff, what's your MAP showing you? Mine peaks at 36.4psi when atmospheric is 15psi? Mine help show if your loosing pressure in the manifold still. I wonder if its needing to forget any learned values, if you have had a screwed up EGR and MAF for a while perhaps its tables have come to expect it.... I dunno if that's possible or not but perhaps disconnecting the battery for half hour allowing the ECU to reset its self may also help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 At idle Barometric pressure is 98kpa or approx 14 psi and the Map sensor I reading 102kpa or 14.7psi. Maf at idle reporting 17.5g/sec. At 3k rpm maf is peaking at 73.25g/sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee_82 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 What's MAP under load? That 70gs seems low to me and if it is might explain the smoke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simcor Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 What's MAP under load? That 70gs seems low to me and if it is might explain the smoke Will need to do a run and data log it, having said that with the vacuum pipe off the actuator on the turbo all strange noises go and the car drives and boosts for the most part better but still with smoke under acceleration. The vane control is partially sticky it seems as a couple of times i pushed it down and it would not return, bit a bit of jiggery pokery and it seems to move freely now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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