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loss of grip


Adam Gallagher
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Hi guys,

 

recently (past 1 month) I have notices that my front tyres (mainly the front right) seems to be slipping when I take corners at high speed or hard turning round roundabouts. I have also noticed if I am going 2-5 MPH in traffic and build up some room in front of me and put the foot down the car starts to pull to the right. I have a ford fiesta zetec s 15 plate with 17" alloys and low profile tyres. I have already had a few issue with tyres going flat really fast and losing pressure (they have no punctures just getting low kinda fast every few weeks I see myself getting them back up to the recommended pressure as it drops 2-3 PSI. The back tyres never give me problems just the front and the right on is the worse.

Any ideas if its just me being to heavy handed with turning and a bit to fast or if its a potential issue.

 

Cheers,

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I reckon you're over-inflating them.  Tyres don't just lose pressure unless they've been poorly fitted (would hope not from the factory!). 

Low profile tyres and cold summer tyres won't be helping though, probably best to slow down a bit tbh.

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Its a FWD so you would expect some torque steer in a Zetec (If you floor it you may feel it pull right/left or even both) - or if your tracking is slightly out you may feel it tends to pull you one way more than another. Also, if your throwing it into sharp turns etc at speed, your more than likely going to get some understeer - especially in cold/wet weather.

 

Just take it easy, go off the tyre pressures inside your car (not that is stated on the tyre, as the tyre states the maximum pressure). As long as there is more than 1.6mm of tread on, the tyre should perform as it should if its inflated to the optimum (not maximum) psi. 

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That's not quite right, under 3mm the water dispersion of a tyre becomes noticeably poor.  1.6mm is only the legal limit here to save lease companies money, legal limit is 3mm in a lot of countries... 

Edge-wear on the front tyres also causes less grip on corners, which then causes more edge wear as you drift corners or spin a tyre pulling out of junctions lol. 

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thanks for the help guys, i have a good amount of tread left so it wont be that and i do get tyre spin when i pull away from a junction some tyres so do you think i need to get the front tyres replaced or.....?

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I'd try a bit less air in them personally and see how it feels.  And wait for the warmer weather as well, summer tyres are worse below 7c. 

What is the make and model of the tyres of out interest?  I assume they're the factory standard ones?

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44 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

That's not quite right, under 3mm the water dispersion of a tyre becomes noticeably poor.  1.6mm is only the legal limit here to save lease companies money, legal limit is 3mm in a lot of countries... 

Edge-wear on the front tyres also causes less grip on corners, which then causes more edge wear as you drift corners or spin a tyre pulling out of junctions lol. 

Good point - I MEANT they would inevitably drop off/become stupidly ungrippy below 1.6. Think mine are about 2.0 at the moment.

@Adam Gallagher My fiesta wheelspins out of a lot of junctions especially on the roads near me. When it rains the oils come to the surface and make it slippery - hence if your pulling out of a junction a little quickly in the damp you will most likely get a lot of wheel spin/understeer - the TC should aim to stop this but it never really does successfully. Try turning TC off and see how much wheelspin you get then, youll be surprised.

 

Or it could just be in Tiger Tyres or something and then yes, it most likely would be your tyres. There are a few threads on recommended tyres but a lot say Pilot Sports, Continental Contactsport 3, and a few others. 

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Just now, JSMarsden said:

Good point - I MEANT they would inevitably drop off/become stupidly ungrippy below 1.6. Think mine are about 2.0 at the moment.

@Adam Gallagher My fiesta wheelspins out of a lot of junctions especially on the roads near me. When it rains the oils come to the surface and make it slippery - hence if your pulling out of a junction a little quickly in the damp you will most likely get a lot of wheel spin/understeer (There are a few tricky junctions near me where its hard to see whats coming, so during rush hour you have to boot it a little to get out safely, wheelspins most mornings in the wet/cold) . Try turning TC off and see how much wheelspin you get then, youll be surprised (a lot of wheelspin)

 

Or it could just be in Tiger Tyres or something and then yes, it most likely would be your tyres. There are a few threads on recommended tyres but a lot say Pilot Sports, Continental Contactsport 3, and a few others. 

 

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58 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

They're already stupidly ungrippy in the wet at 2mm, that'll be why you're spinning out of junctions so much...get them changed lol!  That said, they'll be awesome in the dry with no tread! :biggrin: 

Just seems like a waste losing .4mm when each tyre is about £80! Want to wait it out this month until payday, then I can judge (somehow) spending £160 on two tyres lol

 

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One thing to check is the valve itself, i've seen it before, where there are no punctures on the tyre but it still loses air constantly, very slowly but still.

Wiggle the valve around, if it makes any noise it could be that.

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OP, what pressures do you use, how have you checked for punctures, have you hit any potholes etc that may led to your issues? ( some could be down to your driving though)

 

the 1.6mm limit was made for safety reasons not to save lease companies money.

 

at 3mm dry grip will be reduced, tyres that are near the legal limit won't become "awesome in the dry" as they won't have any tread, they don't become F1 slicks, they have tread the same as a road tyre but a road tyre has to have grooves cut in the wet.

im all for getting the most out of things but running tyres to the limit to save money,especially in the weather we have at this time of year is IMO stupid.

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8 minutes ago, MarksST said:

OP, what pressures do you use, how have you checked for punctures, have you hit any potholes etc that may led to your issues? ( some could be down to your driving though)

 

the 1.6mm limit was made for safety reasons not to save lease companies money.

 

at 3mm dry grip will be reduced, tyres that are near the legal limit won't become "awesome in the dry" as they won't have any tread, they don't become F1 slicks, they have tread the same as a road tyre but a road tyre has to have grooves cut in the wet.

im all for getting the most out of things but running tyres to the limit to save money,especially in the weather we have at this time of year is IMO stupid.

Don't worry, I'm not going to be running them to 1.6mm and having them right on the limit - just waiting till next month to get and fit them. Just taking it easy, not like I'm throwing it into corners and expecting to not hit walls etc! 

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20 hours ago, JSMarsden said:

Just seems like a waste losing .4mm when each tyre is about £80! Want to wait it out this month until payday, then I can judge (somehow) spending £160 on two tyres lol

 

It's not a waste if you end up crashing to save 0.4mm though...  How are you spending £80 each on Fiesta tyres?  They should be a popular size? 

1 hour ago, MarksST said:

OP, what pressures do you use, how have you checked for punctures, have you hit any potholes etc that may led to your issues? ( some could be down to your driving though)

 

the 1.6mm limit was made for safety reasons not to save lease companies money.

 

at 3mm dry grip will be reduced, tyres that are near the legal limit won't become "awesome in the dry" as they won't have any tread, they don't become F1 slicks, they have tread the same as a road tyre but a road tyre has to have grooves cut in the wet.

im all for getting the most out of things but running tyres to the limit to save money,especially in the weather we have at this time of year is IMO stupid.

Why would dry grip be reduced?  The ONLY reason for treads is water dispersion, it's the rubber compound that gives the grip, so if you wear them down to slick that's best for contact in the dry as a bigger area of rubber.  There is still rubber on the tyre when you've worn the treads off, it doesn't go straight through to cords for another mm or so.  I should add, I wasn't saying they should be left to go bald in the summer lol.

1.6mm isn't safe either, if it was, why would the majority of Europe have their legal limit as 3mm?  That's where the UK imports a lot of part worns from...because they're illegal in other countries.  I'm sure there are videos on youtube showing the effectiveness of tyres at 3mm and 1.6mm, and personal experience has shown just how bad tyres are below 3mm, if you've managed to wear the centre to 2mm there almost certainly won't be any edges left either, not an issue on a straight road but corners and junctions become dangerous where you're trying to put power down with the wheels turned.

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10 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

It's not a waste if you end up crashing to save 0.4mm though...  How are you spending £80 each on Fiesta tyres?  They should be a popular size? 

Looking at the Contact 3's (Continentals) or Michellin's - both around the £75-80 mark.

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1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

It's not a waste if you end up crashing to save 0.4mm though...  How are you spending £80 each on Fiesta tyres?  They should be a popular size? 

Why would dry grip be reduced?  The ONLY reason for treads is water dispersion, it's the rubber compound that gives the grip, so if you wear them down to slick that's best for contact in the dry as a bigger area of rubber.  There is still rubber on the tyre when you've worn the treads off, it doesn't go straight through to cords for another mm or so.  I should add, I wasn't saying they should be left to go bald in the summer lol.

1.6mm isn't safe either, if it was, why would the majority of Europe have their legal limit as 3mm?  That's where the UK imports a lot of part worns from...because they're illegal in other countries.  I'm sure there are videos on youtube showing the effectiveness of tyres at 3mm and 1.6mm, and personal experience has shown just how bad tyres are below 3mm, if you've managed to wear the centre to 2mm there almost certainly won't be any edges left either, not an issue on a straight road but corners and junctions become dangerous where you're trying to put power down with the wheels turned.

Why would grip be reduced? Because you've worn the rubber away, yes the grooves are there to disperse water but the are cut into the part of the tyre that would produce the grip, wear a tyre down so no grooves are visible and you won't have any grip worth talking about, as you said you're left with a mm or so before the cords, so that part of the carcass is giving good grip is it? Is also a different compound. Does a F1 tyre give the same grip every lap up until the cords are showing?

1.6mm is the legal limit, that is below the best grip of the tyre, the legal limit used to be 1.0mm

 

 

min thread depth is 1.6mm across Europe, some countries won't allow used parts to be reused eg Germany, 

 

yes the fiesta uses common sizes for tyres but there are ranges in price, linglong ditchfinders might be £20, Michelin, Continental, Goodyear might be £70-100, if you're happy on budgets that's fine if people want to spend more that's fine too 

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Just now, MarksST said:

What size tyre?

195/55/15 I believe, Don't think they do the Pilot Sport in my size and need to get the same size as rears as only buying 2 at the moment

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1 hour ago, MarksST said:

Have you tried tyreleader for prices?

Dont think I have, tried Costco, Tyres on the Drive and Asda so far. all similarly priced 

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