C Max Mk 3 Engine changed

[Old car]

Hi to all,

I'm new on this forum and a newish owner (12 months) of a mk3 1.6tdci titanium 115bhp, it is one of the first mk3's registered Oct 2010.

I bought the car as non runner, cambelt snapped at 113k, the head was removed to diagnose the fault by a garage who quoted £3000 to replace the head, so along comes me to buy the car with all the bits in the boot !! I got a full engine T1DB code ( old one was a T1DA code which I was told are the same? ) complete with injectors, pump etc from a bumped 2013 car with only 4k mileage.
I fitted the engine, eventually, 10 months after I bought it actually. In this time the car stood waiting in my garage with a flat battery, so no power to any of the pcm's, bcm's or anything for that matter.

Now the engine is in it won't start, it turns over but no firing happens, i got a local diagnostics/ ecu re-mapping expert to have a look but he wasn't much help, the codes it came up with are U0401:00-68 invalid data received from ecm/pcm and U0126:00-68 lost communication with sasm steering angle sensor also P0335:00-2E CKP crank position sensor A circuit, does any one know how to / what to do next?

[Old car]

Quick Update:

I changed the crank position sensor from the old engine and there is some progress in that the engine cranks over for much longer than it did each time I hit the start button, ( only turned over for about 3 seconds before having to switch off ignition) but it still wont start however.
I was wondering if I should swap any other sensor or even the injectors from the old engine? I was going to swap the high pressure pump over which is made by Continental but noticed the numbers on the pumps are the same.

Does anyone know the difference between a T1DA and T1DB engine?
I was told they were the same by a ford dealer.

Also if for some reason the keys /immobiliser need re-programming would there be a message on the display or would it not even turn the engine over if this was the case?

Apologies for all the questions!!

[artscot79]

u codes indicate a can bus error which can be faulty sensor faulty wiring etc it would be best to clear the codes before trying to restart also have you checked the fuel pump switch a round button on the drivers side footwell panel next to the accelerator you'll see a round hole with a red bilutton in it

[Old car]

Hi, is there any way of finding out which sensor/ wiring U0401:0068 refers to?

Also I'm struggling to find the fuel cut off button on this car, there is no hole in the footwell panel, could it be somewhere else on this model?

[iantt]

there is no red button on a diesel, petrol only, thats why you cant find it.

[Stoney871]

U0401 is Invalid Data Received From ECM/PCM "A"

Sent from my SM-G930F

[Stoney871]

Check that all connectors to the ECU are correctly seated (check connector pins are straight & corrosion free) and that the ECU wiring loom is intact/undamaged.

I would also check all relevant earthing points are secure & clean.

Sent from my SM-G930F

[Old car]

I've discovered there is no signal pulse to the injectors when tested with a volt meter. ive checked the 3 multi plugs on the ecu under the nearside wheelarch for corrosion and they are fine, the fault code U0401:00-68 PCM /ECM data problem is the only code showing, i would like to check the connection plug to the PCM, Does anyone know the location of this? thought it might be in the same box as the ecu but it is not.

[iantt]

pcm is the ecu.

[Old car]

I thought the power control module was separate, The dtc reads U0401:00-68 Invalid data between PCM and ECM ? 

[mjt]

10 hours ago, Old car said:

I've discovered there is no signal pulse to the injectors when tested with a volt meter

How did you manage that? I'd have thought the pulse would be too short to register on a voltmeter. You'd really need an oscilloscope to check that properly.

[JW1982]

PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is the name Ford has given to the ECU. PCM and ECU are exactly the same thing.

Which diagnostic system did you use to read the DTC codes? Most generic diagnostic systems and diagnostic software will only show generic DTC codes as described mandatory in the OBD2 standard. Additional manufacturer specific DTC codes that are not mandatory will not be shown.

Usually Ford specific diagnostic systems like the Ford IDS system, the FoCom system or in some cases even the Forscan software will show a lot of DTC codes that are not shown by generic diagnostic systems/software.

[artscot79]

the engines are the same a straight swap so its not that its a wrong engine issue

[Old car]

23 hours ago, Old car said:

I've discovered there is no signal pulse to the injectors when tested with a volt meter. ive checked the 3 multi plugs on the ecu under the nearside wheelarch for corrosion and they are fine, the fault code U0401:00-68 PCM /ECM data problem is the only code showing, i would like to check the connection plug to the PCM, Does anyone know the location of this? thought it might be in the same box as the ecu but it is not.

 

12 hours ago, JW1982 said:

PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is the name Ford has given to the ECU. PCM and ECU are exactly the same thing.

Which diagnostic system did you use to read the DTC codes? Most generic diagnostic systems and diagnostic software will only show generic DTC codes as described mandatory in the OBD2 standard. Additional manufacturer specific DTC codes that are not mandatory will not be shown.

Usually Ford specific diagnostic systems like the Ford IDS system, the FoCom system or in some cases even the Forscan software will show a lot of DTC codes that are not shown by generic diagnostic systems/software.

The diagnostic system i used is a snap-on verdict scanner. When i did the check on the injector plugs i used led noids which is basically a small 2 pin led that detects pulses to injectors, not a voltmeter that i wrongley stated.

[Tdci-Peter]

If the PATS system (immobiliser) is active (detects no or wrong key), then normally the starter will not energise, and the red PATS LED will flash oddly. Also the injectors will be disabled. The red LED may flash out an error code. So if red LED is out, and engine cranks over, and the start system is wired normally, then PATS is ok. (This is for Focus mk2, likely similar for your car.)

CAN bus problem is suspected. Try simple resistance test:

There is no need to disconnect the battery. At least on my car the CAN bus went off about 30 sec after turning the ignition off. The PCM stays active for a while, I can hear it testing the EGR valve, and maybe doing other things, then it powers down and the bus goes dead. You can check with a voltmeter, CAN lines (6-14 in diagnostic connector) will be 1v to 3v when active, 0v when off.

Stick a couple of suitable probes (un-bent paper clips can work quite well) in the diagnostic connector pins 6-14, put a DMM across the pair on voltage range, turn ignition on, note reading, turn ignition off, wait till voltage drops to zero (+/- 1 or 2 mV), switch to resistance range to check for 60 ohms.

If 60 ohms, try tapping and moving various suspects, eg the fascia around the IC, the connector by the front door sill, the connector in the engine bay fuse box, and maybe the PCM. Look for any deviations. (IC = Instrument Cluster)

If not 60 ohms, disconnect the engine bay fuse box big connector, see if reading goes up. If it does, then IC is the fault, if not then PCM may be the fault. As both the PCM and the IC contain 120 ohm resistors between the two CAN lines, it is quite easy to detect whether all joints are intact at least up to these resistors. If both ends are linked together, the two 120 ohm resistors in parallel make 60 ohms.

This will not test other modules on the bus, nor internal faults in IC or PCM. A Ford specific diagnostic system is needed really for this. It will tell you if there is a wiring problem, or some simple faults on the IC or PCM. And a diagnostic system may not work at all, or work badly if there is a major CAN bus fault - It uses the bus.

I use Forscan, it is very good, but check their website to see if it is suitable for your car.

Please feedback any results here, others may be interested in engine change problems.

 

 

 

[Help needed]

Hi, I know this has been a few years from this post started but wondering did you get it sorted? I have the same problem. Have a car that broke timing belt and it's engine code was T1DA but replaced it with a T1DB. It turned over for about 3 seconds like you. It had crank shaft position sensor fault. Changed sensors from old engine turning over longer now but still not firing and giving a fault code same as yours did.

[dovski]

Snap!! did you ever fix it m8?

[Tdci-Peter]

2 hours ago, dovski said:

Snap!! did you ever fix it m8?

Looking at the parts lists, both the crank sensor and the crankshaft timing pulley were changed during the 1st year or so of production on the DV6C engine. It seems likely that if one needs changing, then so will the other

https://ford.7zap.com/en/car/52/no/17/1553/15431/67113/#6306.

Forscan can record stuff like RPM (which comes from the crankshaft sensor), fuel rail pressure etc while cranking. It could give some clue as to whether the RPM signal is working at all, or not.

[dovski]

Thanks Peter,

I'll try swapping the crank wheel over with the original sensor which was working (original engine had head gasket failure and low oil pressure but it did run.. I note there ar two sensors and three wheels for my car originally.  I logged the forscan fuel pressure yesterday but not analysed it yet due to the p0335 code..appreciate you input.

[dovski]

Update, when fitting the ford cranks sensor and ring, I noted the cam profile isnt machined away to provide 120deg phasing unlike the ford cam wheel. I fitted the ford cam and crank wheel etc and it now cranks with no code but it still wont fire. I've bled it and bled it, refitted the old fuel filter and bled it and bled it but it wont cough. The fuel press is way too low. I'm now way too p...d off to continue tonight as the next step is to refit the old ford pump and bleed which is nigh on a total tear down of all the work to date.. I'll refit the ford fuel press sensor too just in case.....any sound tips for bleeding the baas....d are appreciated.. The house is stinking of diesel....the cats coat is now gleaming and more water proof than ever but she wont let me clap her any more..lol..

No fault codes after this work btw.. I reset the PCM and thereafter all the other gubbins that required adapting except those require idle operation obviously..tomorrows another day🤨

[Tdci-Peter]

On 1/22/2021 at 6:21 PM, dovski said:

the cats coat is now gleaming and more water proof than ever

If you are in the mood for an amusing story, google the waxoyled cat, or: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1666628

 

On 1/22/2021 at 6:21 PM, dovski said:

The fuel press is way too low.

A little more seriously, the only tips I have on bleeding are to try to do all the work before (tank side of) the fuel filter, so there is no chance of pushing dirt into the pump or injectors, and to apply pressure (as much as you can with a bulb or simple hand pump), preferably while cranking. I messed up my last filter change this summer, and only by borrowing a neighbour to turn the key while I pumped fuel into the filter & pump, did I manage to fire it up.

These fuel pumps are two stage devices. This info might help diagnose a problem with the pump: The 1st stage pump is a rather basic pump giving a volume flow proportional to rpm, a bit like the engine oil pump. It is a bit leaky, too, which is probably why these pumps are so sensitive to air, it will not pump or suck on air. There is then a valve, usually called IMV, and when this is not energised, the flow from the 1st stage just goes back to the tank. There is a return pipe from the pump for this purpose. Energising this valve for an increasing duty cycle diverts an increasing amount of fuel into the second stage, which is a very high performance piston pump that ramps the few bar of pressure from the 1st stage up to the rail pressure, which is up to 1500bar.

Controlling the flow into the 2nd stage like this is used to control rail pressure, and means that only the fuel needed by the injectors is raised to this huge pressure, under conditions from low rpm & high demand, to high rpm with barely open throttle.

The injectors are also 2 stage devices, with exits back to the tank. If the injectors are not operating, then there should not be any leakage flow back to the tank from them. So a flow back from an injector that is not powered (unplugged) would indicate a faulty injector. They should send a pulse of fuel back to the tank each time they are energised. This is the basis of the leakback test.

Forscan should give the IMV duty cycle, though this may not confirm if the iMV is actually operating. Looking at the return flows from the pump and injectors will give a bit more of a clue as to whether there is a pump, IMV or injector problem, or if the ECU is in fact energising the injectors & IMV.

This a a forscan run from starting my car:

It looks to me like the ECU needs at least 200rpm and about 200bar (20,000kPa) before it tries to start. Note how the IMV duty goes high then falls as the pressure builds.

But hopefully it will be something simple like air in the pump!

[dovski]

Thanks very much Pete, understanding the function of the iMV from your explanation makes it a bit clearer. I now know the crank and cam sensing and ecu therefore is programmed differently on the peugeot. There is a likely hood that the PWM to control the iMV is also different on the Pug pump...I'll get the pumps swapped over, recode and bleed. I have a  large syringe that takes about 3/4 ltr, I'll use that to force fluid into the pump with the outlet disconnected to ensure the pump is free of air before I connect the inline bleed bulb to bleed the rest of the pipework.. 

I was getting 200rpm on the scan but no fuel px to speak of...max 40bar dropping to 3. 

 

[dovski]

scan from yesterday............

[Tdci-Peter]

14 hours ago, dovski said:

scan from yesterday......

I am guessing FRPD is the desired Fuel Rail Pressure set by the ECU. It certainly looks like there is no response from the pump at all.

[dovski]

Yes, as opposed to valve command but I guess its the same parameter.  Pump changed and coded, all good, started first time, plenty fluid in the inlet and return stub pipes of old pump, no pressure..guess its a iMV ECU compatibility issue..Thanks for the clues, it got me sorted after some head scratching and a lot of repetative work!!😋