DickP

Mk2.5 vs Mk3 choice

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Hi again,

As mentioned in another topic, I am considering a Focus Estate.  I know the Mk2 and 2.5 relatively well having worked on them on and off before, but never having had to carry out belts or clutch changes on them.  Is the Mk3 estate a significant leap forwards to warrant the big difference in asking prices between the two models?

Say for example, the two I am considering are:

A. Focus Estate Mk3 1.6 TDCI

B. Focus Estate Mk2.5 1.8 TDCI (aware of the wet belt replacing the original engine design timing chain)

On paper they have similar performance, economy and I think the Mk2.5 is slightly bigger in the boot than the Mk3.  Is this right?

As for known drawbacks, I understand that the Mk2.5 1.8 doesn't have a DPF but the wet belt replacement cost probably equalises that difference.  Does anyone know what the typical timing belt and wet belt replacement cost is?

Beyond the above cannot think of why one would or should be significantly better over the other to warrant the 2-3k price difference I have noticed on Autotrader.

Thoughts and comments welcome.

Thanks.

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Not sure about this, but since the new mot rules came into play, is there a chance that the non dpf diesel has a higher chance of failing?

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Hi Phil

Providing the engine is working correctly I wouldn't have thought so?

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21 hours ago, DickP said:

On paper they have similar performance, economy and I think the Mk2.5 is slightly bigger in the boot than the Mk3.  Is this right?

As for known drawbacks, I understand that the Mk2.5 1.8 doesn't have a DPF but the wet belt replacement cost probably equalises that difference.  Does anyone know what the typical timing belt and wet belt replacement cost is?

Yes the mk 2.5 boot is bigger.  I had the timing belt replaced on our mk3 1.6tdci  and it cost £280 at an indy.  The 1.6 tdci mk2.5 doesn't have a wet belt i don't think (not even sure what it is! lol) but they say the 1.8tdci is bombproof and personally i would avoid a mk2.5 1.6tdci with dpf because of all the turbo issues.

What prices are you seeing?  I paid 5k 6 months ago for our 2014 mk3 1.6tdci, FSH & 100,000 miles.

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I have just changed from a fiesta to a 2013 focus titanium spec focus estate with the 1.6tdci engine i paid £7.5k only done 42k miles even has park assist (scary stuff lol) a liked the space in a mk2.5 but the mk3 it was less boxy for me and a little more tech 🙂 

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Most mk2,5 estates have rear discs whereas most mk3 estates ive seen have rear drumbrakes which is a bit of a let down for a newer model

Plus I prefer the interior of the mk2.5 , and the tall rear pillar lights have much better visibility than the mk3 cluster rear lights

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BUT... the mk3 is a newer and better car! Plain and simple.

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The mk3 may be newer but I'm struggling to find anything better about it...  

4 months on I still hate mine and regret selling the mk2.

There will always be a big price leap for a newer model, especially as the mk3 is totally different underneath and not just a facelift.

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2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The mk3 may be newer but I'm struggling to find anything better about it...  

4 months on I still hate mine and regret selling the mk2.

Hi

What is it that you don't like compared to the previous model?

I also thought it was an evolution of the floor pan much like the Mk2 was an evolution of the successful Mk1 floor pan?

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I'm not sure I have time to list everything I don't like about it...

Clutch is jumpy, steering is snatchy, engine is jerky, boot is too small, looks pretty awful (subjective I know), less visibility from rear window and side mirrors, MPG is no better, costs more to insure.  Plus too many common faults, water leaks, AC leaks, clutch faults, injector faults, electrical issues etc etc.

I paid almost £3k on top of the mk2 to get the mk3, and I can safely say it wasn't worth it.  Realistically the only thing that is noticeably better on a daily drive of the mk3 is the sound proofing, it's much quieter at speed than the mk2 was.

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I have my sisters old hydraulic PAS focus mk2.5 the steering feel is great

She now has a mk3 1.6 petrol turbo with the electro steering and its a hideous, self centering, nasty disaster... (although you can get some with proper steering in some engine configurations)

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The big problem with the mk3/mk3.5 is that its smaller inside than the mk2/mk2.5 and the boot is much smaller as well.  The dash in the mk3/ mk3.5 must take up a 1/3rd of the interior room in the car.  Whoever designed that dash should be shot 🙄.  Its a good car apart from that.  If buying a car just for interior room get the mk2.5 estate or even better a Skoda Octavia.  

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Hi

Thanks for the replies.  Great to get peoples general feelings about it.

Now for a technical question.  Did all Focus Mk2 2.0 Diesels have a DPF?

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6 minutes ago, DickP said:

Hi

Thanks for the replies.  Great to get peoples general feelings about it.

Now for a technical question.  Did all Focus Mk2 2.0 Diesels have a DPF?

Only one version of the 2.0 diesel (136). And as far as I know they had one fitted.

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Botus said:

I have my sisters old hydraulic PAS focus mk2.5 the steering feel is great

She now has a mk3 1.6 petrol turbo with the electro steering and its a hideous, self centering, nasty disaster... (although you can get some with proper steering in some engine configurations)

The EHPAS on the mk2 was great as well.  But I've been really shocked by the steering in the 2004 A3 I'm driving atm (the mk3 Focus is so awful I bought a stop gap!)...the steering is nice and weighty, good feedback, doesn't feel vague around the centre or snatchy on corners, I genuinely thought it was electro-hydraulic like the mk2, if not full hydraulic but couldn't find the reservoir to check the fluid level...  Turns out it's full electric!! 😮 So it's Fords system that's rubbish, not electric PAS in general! :laugh: 

I also have more to add about the Mk3, the engine idle is very rough on the 8v 1.6 TDCi, enough to feel in the cabin at standstill, just thankful it has stop start lol.  And the brakes are horrible, there's no finesse to them, they're either on or off, keep headbutting the steering wheel by gently feathering the brake.  They soon fade if you keep using them as well, though I know the Focus diesel wasn't designed as a backroad thrasher.

I don't think any mk3 Focus had EHPAS let alone full hydraulic.

13 hours ago, pistolpete1 said:

Only one version of the 2.0 diesel (136). And as far as I know they had one fitted.

Older versions of the 2.0 in the mk2 didn't have a DPF, but at the age the OP is looking they will all have one.

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You must have bought a real lemon. I drove a lot of Focus MK3 vehicles with different engine types and I never experienced the problems you describe (unless there was something wrong).

 

The Focus MK3 EPAS steering rack is a pretty advanced piece of technology. Earlier EPAS steering racks did have their (electronic) problems but the later ones are basically trouble free. 

The symptons you describe (vague around the centre or snatchy on corners) are usually caused by either a defective EPAS steering rack, incorrect tracking or the software/learned values of the steering rack. The EPAS steering rack has speed dependent power steering combined with several other features like for example pull drift compensation. When changing wheels (or even tyres) the pull drift compensation (and other) learned values need to be reset otherwise the steering will feel very vague/strange. Apart from this it is also recommendable to have the EPAS software updated to the latest available version. Updating the EPAS software and resetting all of the learned values is usually a huge improvement.

Actually I prefer the EPAS system over the conventional Ford hydraulic or EHPAS power steering systems. Especially with larger wheels (I am running on 17 Inch and 18 Inch wheels at the moment) the steering is very precise and not vague arround the center at all. 

 

It is a known fact that the Focus MK3/MK3.5 is considerably smaller than the Focus MK2/MK2.5. The Focus MK2/MK2.5 was actually a pretty big car. The Focus MK2 was a lot bigger than the MK1. The reason for this was that the MK2 was developed in cojunction with the Volvo S40/V50/C30 and C70 to save development/production costs. These Volvo models shared a lot of parts with the Focus MK2. The Focus MK2 was basically not much smaller than the Mondeo MK3. 

The Focus MK3 is basically a further development of the MK2. Despite the technological changes (engines, electronics, safety systems) the MK3 underneath has lots of similarities with the MK2. The chassis / suspension for example only has minor differences. 

 

I really like my Focus MK3 but I also hate the fact that the build quality of the MK3 has not improved. It still has the same production flaws that Fords suffered from 15 Years ago. Because of the build quality (and the fact that I do not like the design of the new Focus MK4) the MK3 will probably be my last Ford. 

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It seems to be easy to buy a lemon with so many common problems on the Mk3s lol, I'm not alone with these problems tbf, the same ones crop up on the Mk3 facebook group at least weekly.  Though the majority of people seem content with them on this forum so some of it may be personal preference...either that or the people on here are umm...more mature...and remember cars without any electronic features so the mk3 feels like a Maybach in comparison...  I often buy used cars and wonder how people have lived with them but they either don't notice or don't care about the issues...the previous owner of my Mk3 even commented on how well it drove at the handover...still can't work out if he was taking the mick! :laugh: 

With the steering, I've had the tracking done so it's not that and it's too much hassle and cost for dealer updates.  But if I can reset learned values on FORScan that might be something to try?  

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In another thread on this forum a while back someone claimed a big improvement by having the pull drift compensation turned off.

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On 6/15/2018 at 5:17 PM, mjt said:

In another thread on this forum a while back someone claimed a big improvement by having the pull drift compensation turned off.

Yeah, that's not possible with FORScan or Focccus though, dealer only unfortunately and I can't really justify any more spending on it, let alone the hassle of leaving it at the dealer's as well.

 

Also more mk3 annoyances to add...the radio is really unintuitive...not really sure why they made it so confusing!  I tried to find and add another DAB station to the presets today, bearing in mind it was only a few months back I set up the rest and struggled then as well...took me several attempts to work it out again!

And on the same vain, I keep increasing cruise speed when I want the volume up and vice versa and I suddenly realised why today...  The radio unit and display are on the left, the steering wheel arrows to adjust the radio are on the left...yet the wheel volume control is on the right!  The dash cruise reminder is on the right of the dash, the dash wheel buttons are on the right of the wheel, yet the cruise switches are on the left.  What a daft design that is, why swap the volume and cruise buttons!! :laugh:

Also the window ledge is too high, can't rest my elbow on the sill and fist in the top of the window recess like I could with the mk2.  I guess that's more of a personal one though lol. :tongue:

Oh, and Ford still can't make chrome badges with thier own damn logo on properly, noticed just how bad mine is getting in the sun today.  I guess they flex as you open the tailgate so the chrome colour cracks and then water gets in.  Been an issue for well over a decade with these though...no longer replaced free either.  :sad:

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My beef is the way they've revamped the steering wheel stalk controls. When I first came to the Focus (MK1.5) the stalk operation seemed very illogical then compared to the Vauxhalls I'd been used to. I eventually got used to it but I never thought it was a particularly good design. The latest Mk3 changes seem even more illogical and pointless, especially the silly little rocker switch that now controls the rear wiper where the screenwash button used to be.

I don't know what the current Vauxhalls are like but on my old Cavalier, Carlton and Astra models the lighting stalk was a simple indented (i.e not momentary) switch action, push away for high beam, back for dipped, momentary pull back for flash reverting to dipped, up/down for indicators. The wiper stalk was up/down for front screen wipers, indented forward and back for rear wiper, momentary pull for front screenwash and wipers, momentary push away for rear screenwash and wiper reverting to intermittent rear wiper. That always seemed to me better thought out.

Other than adding continuous action to intermittent on the rear wiper I can't see the point of the changes made in the Mk3 to both lighting and wiper stalks.

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