Battery Drain, strange light?

[cdent87]

Hi all,

 

I purchased my 2012 Mondeo Turnier 1.6 Zetec (Business Edition) Econetic a couple of months ago from a private seller. So far, it's been fine and apart from a noise at the rear left (suspect it's from the only winter tyre on the car!) and a boost leak I've not had any issues.

However, 2 weeks ago my car had a flat battery one wet/damp morning. We were camping so I thought it was due to having the estate door open whilst unloading. Jump started, took it on a run and no further issues.

This weekend, after some long distance (60+ mile, 2+ hours) around North Yorkshire my car had another flat battery, again on a wet/damp morning. Jump started and seemed ok.

Got home and check all 12v sockets, removed USB music drive, checked all lights inside & out when locked and can't see anything that could drain the battery. However, I locked the car with me in it and noticed a dim red light on in the estate door when closed. Has anyone else noticed this, and could it what's causing the drain? I didn't have a screwdriver on me at work to remove the holder to check, but will do when (if) I get home. I've included a couple of pictures of this for reference.

My other thought was that I found my near side wing mirror knocked in the week before this all started with a scuff on - someone had clipped it during the night - and the side repeater housing is now loose in the mirror. Could moisture be getting in there and causing a problem?

Any ideas are appreciated, before I take it for a new battery - recovery guy said alternator is charging well at 13.5v and can't see any battery issues. He did say it's a Ford branded battery so could be the original.

TIA

[FatHead1979]

On 8/20/2018 at 10:46 AM, cdent87 said:

Hi all,

 

I purchased my 2012 Mondeo Turnier 1.6 Zetec (Business Edition) Econetic a couple of months ago from a private seller. So far, it's been fine and apart from a noise at the rear left (suspect it's from the only winter tyre on the car!) and a boost leak I've not had any issues.

However, 2 weeks ago my car had a flat battery one wet/damp morning. We were camping so I thought it was due to having the estate door open whilst unloading. Jump started, took it on a run and no further issues.

This weekend, after some long distance (60+ mile, 2+ hours) around North Yorkshire my car had another flat battery, again on a wet/damp morning. Jump started and seemed ok.

Got home and check all 12v sockets, removed USB music drive, checked all lights inside & out when locked and can't see anything that could drain the battery. However, I locked the car with me in it and noticed a dim red light on in the estate door when closed. Has anyone else noticed this, and could it what's causing the drain? I didn't have a screwdriver on me at work to remove the holder to check, but will do when (if) I get home. I've included a couple of pictures of this for reference.

My other thought was that I found my near side wing mirror knocked in the week before this all started with a scuff on - someone had clipped it during the night - and the side repeater housing is now loose in the mirror. Could moisture be getting in there and causing a problem?

Any ideas are appreciated, before I take it for a new battery - recovery guy said alternator is charging well at 13.5v and can't see any battery issues. He did say it's a Ford branded battery so could be the original.

TIA

 

Modern diesels give batteries a hard time, especially with all the extra "toys" that many cars come with these days.  Although parasitic drain is a possibility I'd probably start off with a proper battery load test (at a garage) because IF your battery is the original then it's likely to be closer to death than anything being 6 years old.  You also don't know what kind of journeys the previous owner did, if they've done lots of short journeys, especially in the winter then the battery would probably not be getting the chance to recover from a cold start.

Incidentally the battery check needs to be a proper load test not just connecting up a multimeter as the battery might put out enough voltage (and look like it's okay) until it's put under stress/heavy load.

If the battery comes back as still being okay then at least you can move onto checking other areas.

Edited September 10, 2018 by 1979Damian
Removing the images

[cdent87]

On 8/20/2018 at 12:59 PM, 1979Damian said:

 

Modern diesels give batteries a hard time, especially with all the extra "toys" that many cars come with these days.  Although parasitic drain is a possibility I'd probably start off with a proper battery load test (at a garage) because IF your battery is the original then it's likely to be closer to death than anything being 6 years old.  You also don't know what kind of journeys the previous owner did, if they've done lots of short journeys, especially in the winter then the battery would probably not be getting the chance to recover from a cold start.

Incidentally the battery check needs to be a proper load test not just connecting up a multimeter as the battery might put out enough voltage (and look like it's okay) until it's put under stress/heavy load.

If the battery comes back as still being okay then at least you can move onto checking other areas.

Thanks, when I've been to several garages and asked for a battery load test (3 times now) they've all said it's coming back fine - 2 used the OBD port (independent garages) and 1 connected direct the battery (Halfords). Did they do it right?

I had a play around yesterday and I could hear something click on & off frequently, almost like clockwork and when it was on I could hear a buzzing. I'll keep investigating and try and do a full charge on the battery as well.

[thanuttiscotsman]

Hey, this could be a battery issue but may not. There are simple steps/tests which will confirm or deny this. 

Firstly a 6 year old battery is NOT that old at all. My 2002 mondeo ghia x had its original ford battery replaced in 2015 making it 13 years old, it would have been savable with a flush out and new acid but I didn't have time but did have a spare batt.

One thing to note is an alternator charging at only 13.5v is ok but not that great, 13.5v - 14.5v is the acceptable range so your just within it.

I would first check for a parasitic drain as it's very easy, takes little time and is free if you own a meter or can borrow one, if not it's £15 well spent. 

parasitic drain testing;

1) open bonnet

2) lock car "shuts computer systems down"

3) disconnect battery earth lead

4) using a multimeter set to "10 amps max DC" connect the positive meter cable to the earth lead of battery and the meters negative cable to the battery negative terminal. Doing this will start up some computer systems temporarily so it's necessary to wait for these to all go back to sleep "could take a few min, observe ampage on meter screen falling".

5) Once the system has settled you want to observe the ampage on the meter screen, it's should really be no more than 200 miliamp. If once settled it's reads higher than this then you have a parasitic drain and you need to start the tracing process which I can get into later if needs be. 

 

If you don't have a meter and can't get one then disconnect the battery negative terminal overnight as isolating it from the system will prevent parasitic draining and could confirm the drain if it then stopped happening.

On the other hand your battery may be the issue. I've seen many battery's with a defective single cell which would work when it wanted to and not when it wanted to. Car would start go to shops fine, back out shops car instantly dead. Than back to life after a jump start. Easiest way to detect this is to check voltage when battery is dead, each cell makes around 2.1/2.2volts so hence 6 cells x 2.1/2.2 = around 12.8 volts in a healthy battery. So when one cell goes dead it will read 10 point something volts showing no activity on one cell. This issue regularly passes the tests that garages and Halfords do so discount their investigation immediately as it doesn't cover a faulty cell issue as if the cell works during their test the battery will pass. 

 And no the little light wouldnt drain a diesels battery overnight unless it was a proper interior/exterior illumination bulb. 

The above testing will tell you if it's the battery or the car as even if an interior illumination bulb is left on all night and car won't start in the am it'll still read 12v not 10v. If you need to know how to trace a drain let me know. It's easy. 

rossco

[cdent87]

On 9/1/2018 at 12:22 PM, thanuttiscotsman said:

Hey, this could be a battery issue but may not. There are simple steps/tests which will confirm or deny this. 

Firstly a 6 year old battery is NOT that old at all. My 2002 mondeo ghia x had its original ford battery replaced in 2015 making it 13 years old, it would have been savable with a flush out and new acid but I didn't have time but did have a spare batt.

One thing to note is an alternator charging at only 13.5v is ok but not that great, 13.5v - 14.5v is the acceptable range so your just within it.

I would first check for a parasitic drain as it's very easy, takes little time and is free if you own a meter or can borrow one, if not it's £15 well spent. 

parasitic drain testing;

1) open bonnet

2) lock car "shuts computer systems down"

3) disconnect battery earth lead

4) using a multimeter set to "10 amps max DC" connect the positive meter cable to the earth lead of battery and the meters negative cable to the battery negative terminal. Doing this will start up some computer systems temporarily so it's necessary to wait for these to all go back to sleep "could take a few min, observe ampage on meter screen falling".

5) Once the system has settled you want to observe the ampage on the meter screen, it's should really be no more than 200 miliamp. If once settled it's reads higher than this then you have a parasitic drain and you need to start the tracing process which I can get into later if needs be. 

 

If you don't have a meter and can't get one then disconnect the battery negative terminal overnight as isolating it from the system will prevent parasitic draining and could confirm the drain if it then stopped happening.

On the other hand your battery may be the issue. I've seen many battery's with a defective single cell which would work when it wanted to and not when it wanted to. Car would start go to shops fine, back out shops car instantly dead. Than back to life after a jump start. Easiest way to detect this is to check voltage when battery is dead, each cell makes around 2.1/2.2volts so hence 6 cells x 2.1/2.2 = around 12.8 volts in a healthy battery. So when one cell goes dead it will read 10 point something volts showing no activity on one cell. This issue regularly passes the tests that garages and Halfords do so discount their investigation immediately as it doesn't cover a faulty cell issue as if the cell works during their test the battery will pass. 

 And no the little light wouldnt drain a diesels battery overnight unless it was a proper interior/exterior illumination bulb. 

The above testing will tell you if it's the battery or the car as even if an interior illumination bulb is left on all night and car won't start in the am it'll still read 12v not 10v. If you need to know how to trace a drain let me know. It's easy. 

rossco

Thanks for this, I'll try the drain check on my multimeter over the next few days. I'll see what the results tell me and then go from there. From what I've seen the best way to trace a drain would be pulling fuses, is this right?

Some developments - I bought a smart charger and charged the battery overnight a week ago. The car worked great all the weekend but then in the middle of the week it was back to not starting. Recharged the battery again and it doesn't seem to have done much as it worked fine for 1 day and now won't start.

I'll do the drain check first and then go from there depending on the results!

[thanuttiscotsman]

Hey, sorry for the slow response. Yeah it's seems more and more like a drain given charging it up had it run nice for a few days. 

Yeah as for tracing the drain that's the easiest method but I advise you get a decent helper. As all this locking unlocking connecting disconnecting stuff makes it impossible to get into the car get your helper to sit inside the locked car and get them to remove the fuses one at a time and if no change pop the fuse back in and if necessary wait for the system to settle again as putting fuses back in can start up some systems momentarily.

If you find that none of the fuses identify the drain then it's now time to suspect the alternator itself. These have diodes inside them and if they go the alternator will discharge the battery really quite fast I.e minutes.

the test for the alternator is simply to disconnect the live cable from either the battery positive or the alternator itself but *beware* this wire is live and touching it on to any metal part of the vehicle will cause big sparks and an electrical arc which can burn badly so I suggest when you remove the live put it out of the way firmly, maybe even use a zip cable tie to hold it somewhere it can't cause trouble. 

Once this is disconnected if the drain stops happeneing it's the alternator, if it's still happening then you need to look elsewhere and I would advise observing the level of current being drained as this will point you on the right direction. 

Cheers