I have an '07 1.6 TDCI Focus that I've had since 2010 and now has 172k on the clock. It's been well looked after and serviced and maintained regularly, still on its original clutch, DMF, DPF, injectors and Turbo.

 

It's started the annoying habit of going into limp mode as it approaches 3k revs, making overtaking manoeuvres somewhat scary... If I let the revs dip back to around 2k it seems to sort itself out without having to turn the engine off.

 

I have an intermittent warning light that the code reader picks up as 'DPF not operating at full efficiency' or something similar, but this comes and goes independently of how often it goes into limp mode. I fully expect the DPF to be near the end of its life but there's no signs of diesel being dumped into the sump which has happened in the past when it failed to regen. That was solved by a garage running a clean on it a while back.

 

Are there any other potential causes for this apart from the DPF? This is the only code it's showing but I've read it could be fuel filter (not likely as replaced last year), injectors, wastegates, hoses etc? Not really sure it there's any stop gap fixes for DPF as new one seems to be near £1k

 

Cheers

I'm amazed you've managed to make an Eolys DPF last until 172k! 😮 When it was cleaned, did they remove it to do this or just use a spray type cleaner in situ?

That's not limp mode btw, you have to restart the engine to cancel limp. Are you using Forscan or just generic OBD?

Hi Tom, yes I'm amazed it's lasted that long too.. as well as the clutch!

It was just cleaned in situ about 18 months ago. Can't quite remember the product they used but it was the thick end of £300 for the treatment. It cured the poor fuel consumption and rising oil levels I was having at the time though.

It's just a generic OBD I'm using. What do you call the mode it's going into then?

Cheers

Tbf the clutches & DMFs do well in these...the DPFs usually don't!  

Not sure how much you know about DPFs, but basically they catch soot, then burn the soot (during regen), leaving a small ash residue.  The ash particles are too big to pass through the DPF so they can only come back out the way they went in, meaning physical removal is needed to clean it once the ash builds up too much...this is expected around 75k miles on the Eolys DPF which is why yours is such a surprise!  I assume its used for a long motorway commute every day?  It's not going into any mode if it can be cancelled without a restart, it's just restricted by something, possibly not enough fuel pressure, or not enough boost pressure for example.  If you've got a laptop or smartphone, I really would recommend getting an ELM cable/dongle (~£15) and using Forscan (free) to see if that can show any Ford specific fault codes.

Thanks Tom, it's done a fair few motorway miles in its time so that probably explains it.

I'll try and get hold of an ELM cable or find a mate with the right kit and see what's what.

Do you know anything about what my potential options are if it is the DPF? I've already paid for a clean out 18 months ago and would be reluctant to do it again. I've heard it can be £1k to replace which makes little financial sense on a car worth £300. At the same time, I've spent a lot on it over the years and it's probably the best maintained '07 Focus out there so seems a shame to scrap it.

Cheers 

On 5/8/2019 at 2:53 PM, Steve8812 said:

It was just cleaned in situ about 18 months ago.

Sadly, there is no way that an in-situ clean can remove ash accumulation. It may just remove some carbon and oil deposits enough to get it working for a while, but ash is more stubborn.

Defo get hold of that ELM cable and check just what the problem is. If it is the DPF, then at 170k I suspect replacement is the only answer. £1k sounds a bit high, but it is likely to be the wrong side of £500. Tom will probably advise against using a cheap DPF unless you are planning to sell the car, he had a bad experience down that route!

When considering the value of a car, I think that it is not really the commercial value that matters, it is the value to you. Like how much will it cost to replace? My old heap has almost no sale value, but I any replacement I can think of would be expensive or not as good, or both. So if the clutch/DMF needed doing, and I suspect it does, then I would still shell out for it!

One supplier of ELMs: https://tunnelrat-electronics.fwscart.com/

And Forscan: http://forscan.org/download.html

 

9 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Defo get hold of that ELM cable and check just what the problem is. If it is the DPF, then at 170k I suspect replacement is the only answer. £1k sounds a bit high, but it is likely to be the wrong side of £500. Tom will probably advise against using a cheap DPF unless you are planning to sell the car, he had a bad experience down that route!

You can have DPFs cleaned professionally using sonic vibrations to loosen the ash and then pull it back out the way it came in, the DPF does need to be removed for this though, there's no way to do it in situ.  Truck DPFs are cleaned like this all the time.  It's nearly 5 years since I looked into it though and it was expensive back then, but I don't know if the costs have come down since.  Though I agree that the DPF core is probably past it at that mileage anyway, the cat certainly won't be efficient any more either.

In this case I wouldn't advise against an aftermarket DPF.  The OP must be doing decent mileage, part of the reason mine didn't last long was my short journeys which isn't good for any DPF, but especially bad for a low quality one.  You can pick up these aftermarket DPFs for around £200 and that is what I'd recommend for a car of this age/value tbh.  The genuine ones had dropped from around a grand, down to around £800 last time I checked, but still very expensive, especially if you have to pay for labour as well.

 

Thanks for the input guys, I try and find out if I can get some Ford specific fault codes out it then.

I did notice that a cheap DPF could be had for £200, have you any idea what a reasonable labour cost would be to change it? Any garage offering supply and fit has been close to the £1k mark so this could be a cheaper option. To be honest I'd be happy if I just got another year out the car so this might be worth a gamble. I'm reluctant to sink £1k into a DPF and then have the clutch/DMF go soon after and be down another grand. The slight judder when pulling away on a cold engine might be a symptom of that... 

Also chaps, is there any chance this could have anything to do with the EGR valve?

11 hours ago, Steve8812 said:

Thanks for the input guys, I try and find out if I can get some Ford specific fault codes out it then.

I did notice that a cheap DPF could be had for £200, have you any idea what a reasonable labour cost would be to change it? Any garage offering supply and fit has been close to the £1k mark so this could be a cheaper option. To be honest I'd be happy if I just got another year out the car so this might be worth a gamble. I'm reluctant to sink £1k into a DPF and then have the clutch/DMF go soon after and be down another grand. The slight judder when pulling away on a cold engine might be a symptom of that... 

The pull way judder is probably just damp on the DMF, I tried a few things to cure it on mine from just 46k but never could.  It never got any worse or better over my 3 years ownership though.

I got a year out of a cheap 'BM cats' DPF, although it was blocked enough to be causing constant regens after about 6 months.  I changed mine myself in a few hours, have done a few on Focus' now so know exactly what needs doing but I wouldn't expect any more than 3 hours labour at a garage even if it's their first one.  So probably about £150 or so depending on charges in your area.

On 5/11/2019 at 9:23 PM, Steve8812 said:

is there any chance this could have anything to do with the EGR valve?

The symptoms you describe really do not stack up with the EGR valve. This has an in-built position sensor, so major failures will cause specific EGR DTCs and error messages, not DPF messages. Minor failing, like getting a bit sticky, will just give little power dips and a slight tendency to stall on pull-away. A decent diagnostic system should help confirm this.

'DPF not operating at full efficiency' could be problems with the hoses from DPF to the DPF DP sensor, which is a rather common fault on these cars. But the statement "172k miles on original DPF" is almost enough to put the fault on the DPF without any other evidence!

My DMF may be on 175k miles, if it is original. It clanks (quietly) at idle sometimes, and grinds and rattles a bit on a gear change if I apply torque during the change. But it has been doing that for some time (years) now, and might go on for years yet, it is anybody's guess. Motorway miles do not stress it at all, it is low speed urban driving, and lugging the engine at low rpm in too high a gear that wears the DMF.

 

Just a quick update on this guys, and thanks to Peter and Tom for their input so far...

Had it over at a friend's at the weekend to run the Forscan software and some of his diagnostic tools. Main findings on the Delphi system were;

P0299 - Intermittent Turbo Underboost

P2002 - Intermittent DPF efficiency below threshold

DPF Differential Pressure - 0 kPa at all revs

My thoughts based on the above is that a sensor may be faulty if no pressure drop is being recorded across the DPF? Surely the pressure would increase with time as the filter becomes more clogged as it ages? Could it be that the sensor telling the ECU there is no pressure is causing issues with the Turbo that is causing it to cut out at 3k revs? Also, there were no further codes or findings flagged by Forscan but looks to be a got bit of software.

Thanks

Steve

0kPa almost certainly means the DPF pressure pipes have split or snapped.  If not, the sensor or wiring is the issue as you suggest.  

If the DPF hasn't been regenerating (it regens when it senses high pressure) then it could be causing backpressure against the turbo, causing the intermittent underboost.  I'd definitely be looking to fix the DPF issue before turbo one myself.

Well I've been doing a bit of digging under the bonnet, and to my surprise there is only 1 hose running from the DPF to the sensor! There is no evidence of the hose having fallen off, in fact it looks like it might have been deliberately ripped off. I had the car in the garage about 18 months ago for a DPF clean and then again for a replacement hose.. could it be that they've temporarily made the warning light go away by whipping it off? It would explain why I don't have a pressure reading anyway.. I'm going to start by fitting a new hose but I fear the result may not be good if that's why it's been removed in the first place..

 

 

 

 

 

That's the usual snap point at the DPF end, very common.  Basically the heat from the DPF makes the pipes go brittle there.

Interesting that the rest of the pipe has vanished though, that doesn't normally happen.  I reckon it's probably just fallen off rather than being maliciously removed though.

 

14 minutes ago, Steve8812 said:

could it be that they've temporarily made the warning light go away by whipping it off? It would explain why I don't have a pressure reading anyway.. I'm going to start by fitting a new hose but I fear the result may not be good if that's why it's been removed in the first place..

Could anyone be that bad . Unfortunately there are precedents. One person on this site had ABS errors & light after a bearing change, took the car back to the garage, and they fixed the ABS light problem - By cutting a track on the IC pcb to the LED. It did not come on at all, and Forscan showed the error to be still there. But as Tom says, this could just have happened, certainly the damage at the DPF end looks like the result of heat.

I am almost sure the results of re-connecting the hose will not look good, and will generate more error codes. But as you already have problems, the true picture is what is needed, even if it is not very pleasant!

If Eoylis has been getting into the fuel ok, and there is not too much soot in the DPF, there is a chance that a forced regen via Forscan will get it just about working again. At 172k miles, it is a fairly slim hope, but if it only costs a litre or two of Diesel and a bit of noisy annoyance, it would be worth a go.