I recently noticed a rattle in my car which could felt in the clutch pedal too so asked a mechanic friend. He reckons it's the flywheel which will need replacing as it's "wobbling". I've asked him what it would cost to replace this and he suggests replacing the whole clutch and dual mass flywheel to a standard flywheel with a conversion kit. Is this feasible and even recommended? Do all clutch kits come with flywheel as I've seen some for around £150 but his supplier sells them for £250. With labour it's costing around £500. Any advice or tips would be helpful. 

Clutch kits do not normally come with a flywheel, a normal 2 piece clutch kit comes with the clutch disc and pressure plate, the 3 piece kit comes with clutch disc, pressure plate and release bearing. You normally always have to buy the flywheel separately

is the car diesel? I don't think clutch kits usually come with a flywheel. Not sure about changing dual mass flywheel to solid flywheel. Dual mass flywheels are put there for a reason. It acts like a cushion between the engine and gearbox. A solid flywheel may mean pulling away and gear changes are less smooth, more vibration and more chance of gearbox damage. tell us which engine and mileage and some more people might be able to give their views on this

5 minutes ago, isetta said:

is the car diesel? I don't think clutch kits usually come with a flywheel. Not sure about changing dual mass flywheel to solid flywheel. Dual mass flywheels are put there for a reason. It acts like a cushion between the engine and gearbox. A solid flywheel may mean pulling away and gear changes are less smooth, more vibration and more chance of gearbox damage. tell us which engine and mileage and some more people might be able to give their views on this

It's a focus Titanium 1.6 diesel with duratorq engine. 67,000 miles on the clock

1 hour ago, Rumblestrip said:

t's a focus Titanium 1.6 diesel with duratorq engine. 67,000 miles on the clock

That is a very low mileage for a DMF failure. It could be there was a weakness in it, or it could be the engine has been used too much at low RPM and wide throttle.

My car is on 175k miles, I am not sure if the DMF is original (I bought the car in 2011 at about 130k miles), but it certainly rattles and clanks quite a lot now. I just drive with a bit more caution, minimum revs I can get away with without stalling at pull-away, and more relaxed gear changes especially 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd. I can still beat many cars off the lights if I need to, flooring it in 3rd just leaves little petrol engine cars way behind!

I use very gentle throttle openings until the engine gets up to about 1700rpm, the DMF gets much more wear at low rpm.

The point of this is that a little bit of noise or vibration from a DMF is not abnormal. When they go really wrong, they tend to fail quite rapidly and very noticeably, making the car almost unusable. So I suggest taking alternative opinions on the DMF, and not rushing into an expensive repair unless really needed.

That said, £500 seems a very reasonable price for combined clutch and DMF replacement, Perhaps even too reasonable? It is a big job, with lots that can go wrong, from bending the gearbox input shaft to damaging the ABS sensors, so it needs to be done by a trustworthy garage.

If the symptoms remain tolerable, I would put off the job as long as possible to get maximum use out of the current clutch, and then make sure the garage I used had a good reputation for the job, even if that cost £100 more or so.

Thread with sound of a worn DMF:

If the link to the video fails, I have a copy I can upload (if I can upload 29MB!)

I agree with Peter £500 for a Fitted DMF and new clutch sounds very cheap.My MK1 DMF failed at 44 000 a new clutch was fitted all genuine Ford parts at a Ford garage £1250 and that was 10 years ago 👍

10 hours ago, Rumblestrip said:

It's a focus Titanium 1.6 diesel with duratorq engine. 67,000 miles on the clock

The 1.6 TDCI has a DMF that is grease dampened instead of spring dampened. On a 1.6 TDCI failure of the grease dampened DMF is very rare.

A lot more common on the 1.6 TDCI is failure of the crankshaft pulley which has an integrated torsional damper. The symptoms of a defective crankshaft pulley are similar to the symptoms of a defective DMF. A severely worn crankshaft pulley can cause unbalance which in some cases can even be felt in the clutch pedal.

2 hours ago, JW1982 said:

The 1.6 TDCI has a DMF that is grease dampened instead of spring dampened. On a 1.6 TDCI failure of the grease dampened DMF is very rare.

A lot more common on the 1.6 TDCI is failure of the crankshaft pulley which has an integrated torsional damper. The symptoms of a defective crankshaft pulley are similar to the symptoms of a defective DMF. A severely worn crankshaft pulley can cause unbalance which in some cases can even be felt in the clutch pedal.

Even if the rattle disappears when I push the clutch in. 

2 hours ago, williamweb said:

I agree with Peter £500 for a Fitted DMF and new clutch is sounds very cheap.My MK1 DMF failed at 44 000 a new clutch was fitted all genuine Ford parts at a Ford garage £1250 and that was 10 years ago 👍

I'm not going to ford. I couldn't afford it

10 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

That is a very low mileage for a DMF failure. It could be there was a weakness in it, or it could be the engine has been used too much at low RPM and wide throttle.

My car is on 175k miles, I am not sure if the DMF is original (I bought the car in 2011 at about 130k miles), but it certainly rattles and clanks quite a lot now. I just drive with a bit more caution, minimum revs I can get away with without stalling at pull-away, and more relaxed gear changes especially 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd. I can still beat many cars off the lights if I need to, flooring it in 3rd just leaves little petrol engine cars way behind!

I use very gentle throttle openings until the engine gets up to about 1700rpm, the DMF gets much more wear at low rpm.

The point of this is that a little bit of noise or vibration from a DMF is not abnormal. When they go really wrong, they tend to fail quite rapidly and very noticeably, making the car almost unusable. So I suggest taking alternative opinions on the DMF, and not rushing into an expensive repair unless really needed.

That said, £500 seems a very reasonable price for combined clutch and DMF replacement, Perhaps even too reasonable? It is a big job, with lots that can go wrong, from bending the gearbox input shaft to damaging the ABS sensors, so it needs to be done by a trustworthy garage.

If the symptoms remain tolerable, I would put off the job as long as possible to get maximum use out of the current clutch, and then make sure the garage I used had a good reputation for the job, even if that cost £100 more or so.

Thread with sound of a worn DMF:

If the link to the video fails, I have a copy I can upload (if I can upload 29MB!)

The car is due a service soon and I don't want the dealer hearing anything like that as they'll tell me they have to do the job, and it'll cost £1000s with a ford dealer. I can bear the noise and rattle, it not that bad, but I just hate hearing anything abnormal. 

What Year is the car?

38 minutes ago, JW1982 said:

What Year is the car?

2015

2015 (MK3.5) should have be 1.5 TDCI and not a 1.6 TDCI. 

However both the 1.5 TDCI and the 1.6 TDCI in the Focus MK3/MK3.5 do have the same type of DMF flywheel and the Ford B6 gearbox. This type of flywheel is known to be very durable and failure is very rare. Usually these flywheels only need to be replaced after severe clutch failure or if the grease leaks out of the flywheel.

 

2 hours ago, JW1982 said:

2015 (MK3.5) should have be 1.5 TDCI and not a 1.6 TDCI. 

However both the 1.5 TDCI and the 1.6 TDCI in the Focus MK3/MK3.5 do have the same type of DMF flywheel and the Ford B6 gearbox. This type of flywheel is known to be very durable and failure is very rare. Usually these flywheels only need to be replaced after severe clutch failure or if the grease leaks out of the flywheel.

 

It's definitely the 1.6. And the rattle is there which goes away with the clutch in. I don't know what's failed but the mechanic listened to the rattle for about 3 seconds and said flywheel. 

Maybe get a second opinion, its always worth it before shelling out. I had a mechanic tell me my flywheel was on its way out and in the end turned out to be the cat!

16 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

That is a very low mileage for a DMF failure. It could be there was a weakness in it, or it could be the engine has been used too much at low RPM and wide throttle.

My car is on 175k miles, I am not sure if the DMF is original (I bought the car in 2011 at about 130k miles), but it certainly rattles and clanks quite a lot now. I just drive with a bit more caution, minimum revs I can get away with without stalling at pull-away, and more relaxed gear changes especially 1st-2nd and 2nd-3rd. I can still beat many cars off the lights if I need to, flooring it in 3rd just leaves little petrol engine cars way behind!

I use very gentle throttle openings until the engine gets up to about 1700rpm, the DMF gets much more wear at low rpm.

The point of this is that a little bit of noise or vibration from a DMF is not abnormal. When they go really wrong, they tend to fail quite rapidly and very noticeably, making the car almost unusable. So I suggest taking alternative opinions on the DMF, and not rushing into an expensive repair unless really needed.

That said, £500 seems a very reasonable price for combined clutch and DMF replacement, Perhaps even too reasonable? It is a big job, with lots that can go wrong, from bending the gearbox input shaft to damaging the ABS sensors, so it needs to be done by a trustworthy garage.

If the symptoms remain tolerable, I would put off the job as long as possible to get maximum use out of the current clutch, and then make sure the garage I used had a good reputation for the job, even if that cost £100 more or so.

Thread with sound of a worn DMF:

If the link to the video fails, I have a copy I can upload (if I can upload 29MB!)

Slightly off topic Peter but its good to have a mileage update!  Mine's on 173k.  Can't remember where we were last time but I might be catching you 😄 Who else was in the race to 200k?  Was it @1979Damian ?

1 hour ago, jonj1611 said:

Maybe get a second opinion, its always worth it before shelling out. I had a mechanic tell me my flywheel was on its way out and in the end turned out to be the cat!

I think I better. Cheers

1 hour ago, Albert27 said:

Slightly off topic Peter but its good to have a mileage update!  Mine's on 173k.  Can't remember where we were last time but I might be catching you 😄 Who else was in the race to 200k?  Was it @1979Damian ?

@Albert27 lol, yes it was me 😁

 

My 05 plate MK2 is less than 100 miles off hitting 170K.  Strangely, since I had to have the gearbox replaced, the clutch doesn't make the groaning noise when pulling off that it used to do, although it took a month or so to settle down after the gearbox replacement.

 

To be honest it feels spot on now, although now I've said that I'll probably set off for work on Monday morning and have the DMF shatter, taking the gearbox with it!  🤬  🤬  🤬 

43 minutes ago, 1979Damian said:

@Albert27 lol, yes it was me 😁

 

My 05 plate MK2 is less than 100 miles off hitting 170K.  Strangely, since I had to have the gearbox replaced, the clutch doesn't make the groaning noise when pulling off that it used to do, although it took a month or so to settle down after the gearbox replacement.

 

To be honest it feels spot on now, although now I've said that I'll probably set off for work on Monday morning and have the DMF shatter, taking the gearbox with it!  🤬  🤬  🤬 

Glad my memory wasn't failing me 😄   I remember you being unsure about keeping it or not but glad its running sweet now.   All good on mine,  the last 12 months has been a service, new EGR valve & a new dip beam bulb today so can't complain too much.  😄  Where were the mileages the last time we compared? Who's catching who?

11 minutes ago, Albert27 said:

Glad my memory wasn't failing me 😄   I remember you being unsure about keeping it or not but glad its running sweet now.   All good on mine,  the last 12 months has been a service, new EGR valve & a new dip beam bulb today so can't complain too much.  😄  Where were the mileages the last time we compared? Who's catching who?

Good recall mate, I do about 15-16K miles a year so my car will do well to get to 200K before something major kills it off.  I fully intend on keeping it going until it properly craps itself i.e. a £600+ job, then it's Mondy MK4.5 2.2 TDCi Titanium X Sport time! 😁

3 hours ago, Rumblestrip said:

the mechanic listened to the rattle for about 3 seconds and said flywheel. 

Sometimes when I stop and let the engine idle, there is a slight speed variation, and a regular clank. Not loud, but noticeable. Listening under the bonnet it did not have a clear source, but was appreciably clearer with my ear by the passenger side wheel arch, and not noticeable by the driver side one. Thus I reckon it is the DMF..

The same test should be able to distinguish between crankshaft pulley at the driver side wheel arch, and clutch at the passenger side one.

@Albert27, I lied about the mileage, it is 176,991 now, just checked!

 

On 1/11/2020 at 2:01 PM, JW1982 said:

2015 (MK3.5) should have be 1.5 TDCI and not a 1.6 TDCI. 

However both the 1.5 TDCI and the 1.6 TDCI in the Focus MK3/MK3.5 do have the same type of DMF flywheel and the Ford B6 gearbox. This type of flywheel is known to be very durable and failure is very rare. Usually these flywheels only need to be replaced after severe clutch failure or if the grease leaks out of the flywheel.

 

Is this the same for a 66 plate 1.5 tdci?