1.6 tdci starting issues

[WTDI]

Hi guys, 

my 1.6 Tdci 59 plate focus is playing up when cold starting. It will crank for 5 seconds before starting then will misfire when raised above idle for about 30 second. No white smoke at any point so don’t think injectors are leaking fuel. 
 

after this initial issue, it drives perfectly and is smooth. Could anyone offer some advice, possibly EGR related?
I’ve changed the fuel filter to try and help it. 
 

cheers

[unofix]

Are the glow plugs working ?

[DaveT70]

Yep, as UNOFIX says, I'd be changing the glow plugs

[isetta]

I’d do a bit of checking first to see if it’s faulty glow plugs themselves or lack of power to them. Some people have had trouble with them snapping off when undoing them so you don’t want that to happen particularly if it turns out it is a power problem and the glow plugs did not need undoing

[TomsFocus]

As Isetta, I wouldn't risk changing the plugs on one of these just on the off chance.  They usually throw a fault code & engine malfunction warning when they fail.  And even without any plugs, mine still started and drove fine in autumn temps (albeit in limp mode!).

Sounds like a faulty injector to me, I'd be getting Forscan on it before doing anything else.

[WTDI]

I’ve ordered an OBD connector so I can use forscan.
I’m unsure whether it’s an injector as I’d imagine a faulty injector would cause rough running or poor power regardless of temperature? It idles smooth as glass. 
I’m unsure on the glow plugs, there’s no engine light showing and as far as I know these engines don’t need them to start until it’s - temperatures. If I cycle the key a couple of times and give it 10 seconds the car starts fine, which would indicate glow plugs, Yet there’s no engine light or white diesel smoke!

It’s completely perfect aside from first start of the day.

ill see what forscan has to say if anything 

[Tizer]

57 minutes ago, WTDI said:

 If I cycle the key a couple of times and give it 10 seconds the car starts fine

 

On 4/8/2022 at 8:16 PM, WTDI said:

my 1.6 Tdci 59 plate focus is playing up when cold starting. It will crank for 5 seconds before starting then will misfire when raised above idle for about 30 second

Your symptoms sound more air in the fuel. I'm not sure why it only happens when parked overnight unless it is parked on a steep slope.

[WTDI]

51 minutes ago, Tizer said:

 

Your symptoms sound more air in the fuel. I'm not sure why it only happens when parked overnight unless it is parked on a steep slope.

The car is parked on a flat driveway. It has done it twice in the day before, but it seems to be when I rush the key from off straight to start.
I’ve heard about someone who had an o ring fail somewhere in the fuel system and it allowed diesel to leak back to the tank overnight. 
 

It certainly does give air in the fuel symptoms, it’s not overfuelling, as the clear exhaust shows, and once it’s had 20 seconds it idles smooth and revs cleanly. 
 

any suggestions on how to investigate air? Is there a common seal that fails? 
 

Cheers 

[Tizer]

49 minutes ago, WTDI said:

The car is parked on a flat driveway. It has done it twice in the day before, but it seems to be when I rush the key from off straight to start.
I’ve heard about someone who had an o ring fail somewhere in the fuel system and it allowed diesel to leak back to the tank overnight. 
 

It certainly does give air in the fuel symptoms, it’s not overfuelling, as the clear exhaust shows, and once it’s had 20 seconds it idles smooth and revs cleanly. 
 

any suggestions on how to investigate air? Is there a common seal that fails? 
 

Cheers 

It is notoriously difficult to trace air ingress other than to use your eyes and nose and I don't know of any common problems, maybe someone reading this might.

The only thing that I would do is if any of the joints look suspect then smear them with Vaseline to give them a temporary seal to try to either prove or eliminate them.

When you do get FORScan working have a look at the Fuel Rail Pressure. I can't remember what the figures need to be for starting, I'm sure someone else will. When it does start then the pressure should be fairly steady although it does vary a lot when driving dependant on the load.

[WTDI]

1 hour ago, Tizer said:

It is notoriously difficult to trace air ingress other than to use your eyes and nose and I don't know of any common problems, maybe someone reading this might.

The only thing that I would do is if any of the joints look suspect then smear them with Vaseline to give them a temporary seal to try to either prove or eliminate them.

When you do get FORScan working have a look at the Fuel Rail Pressure. I can't remember what the figures need to be for starting, I'm sure someone else will. When it does start then the pressure should be fairly steady although it does vary a lot when driving dependant on the load.

Fantastic info thanks a lot 

looking forward to plugging it in and having a look. Out of intrigue alone, even if it doesn’t help point to the issue 

[WTDI]

Forscan shows these attached faults. looks like my EGR suspicion is correct. Whats the next steps guys?  

thanks for all the help

[TomsFocus]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:58 PM, WTDI said:

Forscan shows these attached faults. looks like my EGR suspicion is correct. Whats the next steps guys?  

thanks for all the help

Realistically, it probably needs a new EGR with those codes.  Most likely the electrical side is failing, so cleaning it won't make any difference.  The EGR is easy enough to replace on these fortunately, but I would recommend going with a decent quality make, ideally with a couple of years warranty.

[WTDI]

49 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Realistically, it probably needs a new EGR with those codes.  Most likely the electrical side is failing, so cleaning it won't make any difference.  The EGR is easy enough to replace on these fortunately, but I would recommend going with a decent quality make, ideally with a couple of years warranty.

That's a pain, was hoping not to have to replace. I took it apart and cleaned inside the valve and where the motor connects thoroughly. I noticed the arm on the motor was quite notchy and stiff, not returning to its rest position when twisted. That's abnormal isn't it? I sprayed some WD40 and worked it back and forth about 100 times and its now much smoother and snaps back. 

Put the EGR back on the car and there appears to be no trouble codes after 20 miles or so of varied driving and it starts fine. Appears to be fixed for now but does it sound like the EGR is knackered anyway?

[TomsFocus]

1 hour ago, WTDI said:

That's a pain, was hoping not to have to replace. I took it apart and cleaned inside the valve and where the motor connects thoroughly. I noticed the arm on the motor was quite notchy and stiff, not returning to its rest position when twisted. That's abnormal isn't it? I sprayed some WD40 and worked it back and forth about 100 times and its now much smoother and snaps back. 

Put the EGR back on the car and there appears to be no trouble codes after 20 miles or so of varied driving and it starts fine. Appears to be fixed for now but does it sound like the EGR is knackered anyway?

Well if it starts & drives fine and there are no more codes, let's hope it's fixed for a while at least.