Jump to content
Do Not Sell My Personal Information


What else can rattle besides the flywheel?


Simmo80
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have 1.8 Lynx KKDA on focus 58 plate. I had the clutch done around 8 months ago and i am getting a loud rattling noise from the gearbox area that dissappears when i PRESS the clutch. Could it be the gearbox itself? I dont think its the flywheel and the csc was also changed so id be surprised if it was the release bearing.

What else can rattle in this way? And has anyone had experience of a box failing? I also mentioned in another post the play and click noise where the passenger side drive shaft goes into the gear box. (not play in the shaft) 

Appreciate any advice thanks 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


When clutch was done, was the dual mass flywheel changed?    It could be gearbox in theory but I cant say from experience.   Years ago I had a petrol escort doing same thing. I assumed it was gearbox as they don’t have dual mass flywheel.  Then over a period of a few weeks it got very noisy like bearing noise and on overrun started to make screeching noises and jumping out of gear.  Had to change gearbox.  But that happened I would say at least 4 years after I noticed the rattle in neutral which went away when putting foot on clutch.   If it was mine I would just keep my fingers crossed due to costs versus value of car

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, isetta said:

When clutch was done, was the dual mass flywheel changed?    It could be gearbox in theory but I cant say from experience.   Years ago I had a petrol escort doing same thing. I assumed it was gearbox as they don’t have dual mass flywheel.  Then over a period of a few weeks it got very noisy like bearing noise and on overrun started to make screeching noises and jumping out of gear.  Had to change gearbox.  But that happened I would say at least 4 years after I noticed the rattle in neutral which went away when putting foot on clutch.   If it was mine I would just keep my fingers crossed due to costs versus value of car

Unfortunately it has solid mass. Iv never been comfortable with it really. I think its the solid mass thats caused the problem. As for cost, i have found boxs with local pickup on eBay from 75 to 120. And also found a really good video on YouTube for exactly the same gearbox doing a clutch replacement. Besides i know someone who only charge 150 labour. So i think i may get lucky cost wise. Although its still money id rather not have to spend. But even if it ran upto 500 in costs, its cheaper than buying another car. 

They has always been a really quiet rattle (hardly noticeable) but past couple of days its just stood out like a sore thumb. Also when i accelerate or take foot off they has always been a bit of a jerk, seperate to the jerk you get from when your engine start to slow you down if you was in too low of gear. Thing is. Got holiday booked and paid at end of month (just camping on east coast) so thats the worry 😞

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the link to the vid on YouTube. Really good i think personally. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, isetta said:

I don’t think there’s any doubt that solid flywheel will stress the gearbox a lot more.  

Without a doubt. Thats what would increase the cost, replacing with DMF kit. Thats what i meant by cost going up to around 500.

300 for dmf kit, 75 for box, and 150 labour, plus oil, dot 4 and other bits. 

But with that video, id be confident doing it myself. Although i think id also strap a bar across to take engine weight instead of just a jack. Just incase. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don’t know why people make these videos, showing other people how to do stuff themselves is not good business but I’m very pleased that all these videos do exist on YouTube. I don’t think I could get the gearbox back on just by lifting if like he did.  I think I’d need a trolley jack under it (like when I replaced gearbox on escort I previously mentioned) .  And I think this would take me a whole day and I would feel drained of energy for next few days.   But I have done office work for last 40 years so manual work knocks me out quickly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, isetta said:

I don’t know why people make these videos, showing other people how to do stuff themselves is not good business but I’m very pleased that all these videos do exist on YouTube. I don’t think I could get the gearbox back on just by lifting if like he did.  I think I’d need a trolley jack under it (like when I replaced gearbox on escort I previously mentioned) .  And I think this would take me a whole day and I would feel drained of energy for next few days.   But I have done office work for last 40 years so manual work knocks me out quickly. 

The video's give people options and asks them the question could you, do you feel comfortable doing this repair yourself. If they answer YES then fairplay to them and let them get on with it. If they answer NO then they will go to a mechanic that hopefully wont spank them for the work involved. It comes down to know your limits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was it a decent quality clutch kit?  Valeo or LUK etc?

Without the DMF to soak up vibrations, the rotational clutch springs will be taking extra abuse at idle so it could be them rattling now, particularly if it was just a cheap clutch like Transmech!  Pressing the clutch takes the weight off of the centre plate.

Worth noting that the rattle from the driveshaft side is likely to be from the diff which will only be heard while the wheels are in motion. 

 

I must admit, I'd be surprised if there's anything left on the car that doesn't rattle with an SMF on a 1.8 TDCI...they never were a refined engine! :laugh: 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, isetta said:

I don’t know why people make these videos, showing other people how to do stuff themselves is not good business but I’m very pleased that all these videos do exist on YouTube. I don’t think I could get the gearbox back on just by lifting if like he did.  I think I’d need a trolley jack under it (like when I replaced gearbox on escort I previously mentioned) .  And I think this would take me a whole day and I would feel drained of energy for next few days.   But I have done office work for last 40 years so manual work knocks me out quickly. 

Lol i know what you mean, it never works out as simple when you do it yourself. Lol thank you for your feedback. You think it could last as long as yours did now you know its got solid mass? Iam driving really softly softly with clutch lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So just to confirm my thinking! 

I don't think they anything wrong with engine side of things cos it still sounds sweet when clutch is pressed. I don't think its SMF, could be release bearing but its only 8mnth old, could be springs on clutch plate?. The reason why iam leaning more towards the box is. Its almost always been hard to get into first. 2 attempts most time, sometimes even pressing the clutch twice and you can feel it go so far then little rough nudge to get into gear properly. Then there is the motion i can feel thats similar to broken engine mount, but iv replaced lower and the others seem solid, control arms dont seem to have any play including ball joints. And the motion only happens on acceleration and deceleration (no clunk noise) then the play in passenger side diff area. 

I don't like the SMF it was fitted when we bought it. And if the csc hadnt of gone just after spending up for xmas i would of had a DMF fitted. But it went at the worst time. 

But my conclusion is i think the SMF has done a number on my gearbox. So iam hoping if i can get hold of a half decent box at salvage, change to luk or sachs DMF should solve 90% if not 100% of the problem. Then its just back to looking after all the usual wear n tear. 

Question is: am i on the right track and do you guys agree it seems the best way to go providing i can keep cost to minimal? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/1/2022 at 9:44 AM, TomsFocus said:

Was it a decent quality clutch kit?  Valeo or LUK etc?

Without the DMF to soak up vibrations, the rotational clutch springs will be taking extra abuse at idle so it could be them rattling now, particularly if it was just a cheap clutch like Transmech!  Pressing the clutch takes the weight off of the centre plate.

Worth noting that the rattle from the driveshaft side is likely to be from the diff which will only be heard while the wheels are in motion. 

 

I must admit, I'd be surprised if there's anything left on the car that doesn't rattle with an SMF on a 1.8 TDCI...they never were a refined engine! :laugh: 

Rotational spings?  Are these the springs on clutch plate? And wouldn't the noise from the diff be as the wheels start motion? The change of force from acceleration and vice versa from deceleration? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Simmo80 said:

Rotational spings?  Are these the springs on clutch plate? And wouldn't the noise from the diff be as the wheels start motion? The change of force from acceleration and vice versa from deceleration? 

Rotational springs are the ones 'in rotation' on the centre plate, so yes, probably the ones you're thinking of!  Just wanted to make the distinction away from the diaphragm spring on the pressure plate.

My thinking on that is this...  As the centre plate is connected directly to the gearbox input shaft at all times, there will always be some slight resistance against it at idle with the clutch up.  As the engine is turning it with a sort of pulsing rotational force, the gearbox shaft is resisting it, and the rotational springs are between the two, compressing and rebounding hundreds or times a minute to try and compensate.  If even one of those springs is slightly loose, that's an ideal candidate for a rattle.  In rare cases, I have seen these springs detach at one end so the clutch can no longer be released, at least two of those were nearly new cars, with a manufacturing defect on the clutch...so simply being 'new' shouldn't rule it out.

The diff is only moving while the wheels are, so can't make any noise while idling or revving when stationary.  You're right, it can make a single knock when setting off or coming to a stop, but usually diff rattle occurs constantly while the wheels are in motion, especially over rough ground or during deceleration.  I've killed a few diffs (common fault back in mm Peugeot days!) and to me it doesn't sound like that's the issue here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/4/2022 at 1:49 PM, TomsFocus said:

Rotational springs are the ones 'in rotation' on the centre plate, so yes, probably the ones you're thinking of!  Just wanted to make the distinction away from the diaphragm spring on the pressure plate.

My thinking on that is this...  As the centre plate is connected directly to the gearbox input shaft at all times, there will always be some slight resistance against it at idle with the clutch up.  As the engine is turning it with a sort of pulsing rotational force, the gearbox shaft is resisting it, and the rotational springs are between the two, compressing and rebounding hundreds or times a minute to try and compensate.  If even one of those springs is slightly loose, that's an ideal candidate for a rattle.  In rare cases, I have seen these springs detach at one end so the clutch can no longer be released, at least two of those were nearly new cars, with a manufacturing defect on the clutch...so simply being 'new' shouldn't rule it out.

The diff is only moving while the wheels are, so can't make any noise while idling or revving when stationary.  You're right, it can make a single knock when setting off or coming to a stop, but usually diff rattle occurs constantly while the wheels are in motion, especially over rough ground or during deceleration.  I've killed a few diffs (common fault back in mm Peugeot days!) and to me it doesn't sound like that's the issue here.

Yeah i think i was misunderstood lol the click from the diff is seperate to the rattling and i was just wondering if it was related. Either way. Its gone completely now. No movement now just a light loose grinding noise. It happend when i miss read my gears and tried to pull out a junction in 3rd. It happened before i realised i was in 3rd but was too late for me to dip clutch and change to first. 

So either way its time to find out. 

So whats your opinion please? Does it still sound like clutch plate or does it sound more like box now? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Simmo80 said:

Yeah i think i was misunderstood lol the click from the diff is seperate to the rattling and i was just wondering if it was related. Either way. Its gone completely now. No movement now just a light loose grinding noise. It happend when i miss read my gears and tried to pull out a junction in 3rd. It happened before i realised i was in 3rd but was too late for me to dip clutch and change to first. 

So either way its time to find out. 

So whats your opinion please? Does it still sound like clutch plate or does it sound more like box now? 

At risk of misunderstanding again, what's gone now?  The noise...or the drive?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

At risk of misunderstanding again, what's gone now?  The noise...or the drive?

 

The drive. In every gear, no movement, just the sound of loose rattle similar to the noise it was making 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Simmo80 said:

The drive. In every gear, no movement, just the sound of loose rattle similar to the noise it was making 

Oh dear. :sad: 

I reckon it probably is the gearbox/diff then.  Either way, the gearbox needs to come out now so you can visually check the clutch too once that's out.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TomsFocus said:

Oh dear. :sad: 

I reckon it probably is the gearbox/diff then.  Either way, the gearbox needs to come out now so you can visually check the clutch too once that's out.  

Think this is my opportunity and best option to put DMF in at same time. Thanks everyone for your advice and help. Wish me luck. I'll report on anything out of the ordinary 👍 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Well. All fitted new DMF and kit and box from local synetiq salvage. 

Had to swap the bracket that held the gear cables as they bent the bracket probably when they strapped it up to move from one location to another. But all running again. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have the same issue.. rattling while rolling without accelerating und 3 clonks if engine turn off. I am doing the clutch flywheel pressure plate etc. myself exchanging to a SMF on the street.

Will respond if jobs done. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, asiasnack said:

Have the same issue.. rattling while rolling without accelerating und 3 clonks if engine turn off. I am doing the clutch flywheel pressure plate etc. myself exchanging to a SMF on the street.

Will respond if jobs done. 

I wouldn't recommend smf. Although its cheaper to change gearbox than to change DMF. But SMF has been the root of most my problems. Everyone goes there own way. But if you suspect gearbox problems id steer clear. My gearbox lasted 20k with SMF, so guess it depends on when your planning on scrapping it lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think its the gearbox.. if yes, its too late lol

I have to put back both driveshafts, engine mount and etc and then pretty done. The SMF (Valeo 4 KKit 835132) costs 350€ on amazon plus gearbox oil. In Germany I cant find a cheap gearbox alsothe shipping costs would be around 60€ I think.

I have a 2004 Focus Cmax, 2.0 TDCI with MMT6 gearbox.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Its done. While driving only I do recognize a light rattling.  If I had to choose again I would take a DMF. Lets see how long my gearbox last.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/3/2022 at 12:08 PM, asiasnack said:

Its done. While driving only I do recognize a light rattling.  If I had to choose again I would take a DMF. Lets see how long my gearbox last.  

If you just do standard driving you probably last a while, especially if you take bit more care with the clutch. I wish you the best of luck. I had nothing against SMF when I first had one, but I wouldn’t have one again and i love the feel of my DMF now. And cant tell any diffrence performance wise.

Wish you the best and hope it lasts as long as you need it! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...

Forums


News


Membership