Hi,

I know there are hundreds of threads about this issue on this forum but I'm asking for some specific advice here so I hope the mods don't mind me starting yet another one.

I have a 2017 Focus 1.0 EcoBoost. It's currently sitting at 72k miles and has been well serviced over the years... apart from it being about 6 weeks overdue for it's next service due to some extenuating family circumstances I won't get into here.

Anyway, I have it booked in for it's service next week, but yesterday as I was about half a mile from home I noticed my oil light came on as I was going up a reasonably a steep hill. It then proceeded to go off and come back on again intermittently. There was no loss of power or change to engine noise that I could detect (and yes, I did turn my loud music off to listen lol). The car seemed to be running just fine. I got home, waited for everything to cool down and checked the oil level - it was fine. I turned the engine back on again (briefly) and the oil light didn't come back on again and it seemed to be idling in the normal way - no strange vibrations or noises that I could make out.

I pulled the latest DTCs off of it and got 'P0365 - Camshaft Position Sensor 'B' Circuit (Bank 1)' and 'P0369 - Camshaft Position Sensor 'B' Circuit Intermittent (Bank 1)'. I called my local mechanic and they said it's probably to do with the 'wetbelt' slipping and that the timing could be off by a tooth or two. They can't undertake the work but gave me the number for some local engineering firm.

When I called them they said straight away that I'm going to need a new engine, and that depending on what specific engine I needed it will either cost around £3500 or £7500!!!

I. Was. Not. Expecting. That.

They said the belt will have degraded and come apart in the oil and that debris from the belt will have spread throughout the engine so now it's basically scrap. When I told them it seemed to be running just fine they said they could change the belt for around £950, but that if the engine was damaged I'd still then have the cost of a new engine on top.

Can anyone here with any experience or intimate knowledge of these engines or this issue chime in perhaps? What do you think? Is the engine more than likely now scrap, or should I seek a second opinion from somewhere else? That firm are the only ones I can find who undertake this work in my area though. I've not had chance to search extensively mind and I'm sure I'll find some more but for now I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do. The car is only worth about £7k-£8k on a good day!

Any advice anyone?

Thanks.

Without even seeing it I will say the engine is 100% scrap.

So the only question that remains to be answered is where do you get the new engine from and who does the work ?

Don't use a Ford main dealer as it will cost around £8500, possibly more by the time all the other parts are added to the final invoice.

There are companies that can provide new replacement engines and fit them for around £3600 but remember of course you will probably also need a new turbo.

For example see PumaSpeed: https://pumaspeed.co.uk/product-Brand-New-Ford-Service-10-EcoBoost-Engine_18898.jsp

8 hours ago, DoTheDonkeyKonga said:

Hi,

I know there are hundreds of threads about this issue on this forum but I'm asking for some specific advice here so I hope the mods don't mind me starting yet another one.

I have a 2017 Focus 1.0 EcoBoost. It's currently sitting at 72k miles and has been well serviced over the years... apart from it being about 6 weeks overdue for it's next service due to some extenuating family circumstances I won't get into here.

Anyway, I have it booked in for it's service next week, but yesterday as I was about half a mile from home I noticed my oil light came on as I was going up a reasonably a steep hill. It then proceeded to go off and come back on again intermittently. There was no loss of power or change to engine noise that I could detect (and yes, I did turn my loud music off to listen lol). The car seemed to be running just fine. I got home, waited for everything to cool down and checked the oil level - it was fine. I turned the engine back on again (briefly) and the oil light didn't come back on again and it seemed to be idling in the normal way - no strange vibrations or noises that I could make out.

I pulled the latest DTCs off of it and got 'P0365 - Camshaft Position Sensor 'B' Circuit (Bank 1)' and 'P0369 - Camshaft Position Sensor 'B' Circuit Intermittent (Bank 1)'. I called my local mechanic and they said it's probably to do with the 'wetbelt' slipping and that the timing could be off by a tooth or two. They can't undertake the work but gave me the number for some local engineering firm.

When I called them they said straight away that I'm going to need a new engine, and that depending on what specific engine I needed it will either cost around £3500 or £7500!!!

I. Was. Not. Expecting. That.

They said the belt will have degraded and come apart in the oil and that debris from the belt will have spread throughout the engine so now it's basically scrap. When I told them it seemed to be running just fine they said they could change the belt for around £950, but that if the engine was damaged I'd still then have the cost of a new engine on top.

Can anyone here with any experience or intimate knowledge of these engines or this issue chime in perhaps? What do you think? Is the engine more than likely now scrap, or should I seek a second opinion from somewhere else? That firm are the only ones I can find who undertake this work in my area though. I've not had chance to search extensively mind and I'm sure I'll find some more but for now I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do. The car is only worth about £7k-£8k on a good day!

Any advice anyone?

Thanks.

Very quickly, very, very quickly:

If the oil pressure light is NOT on at idle, cut your losses and sell it to we buy any car dot com ASAP

Buy another car without the 1.0 Ecoboost engine

Don't dilly-dally, get rid ASAP

Urgh! Nightmare!!  Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate it.

As a follow-up question, if I can get an engine fitted for around £3500 do you think it's worth doing and just keeping the car for another few years? Are there any other common major (read: expensive) problems with these cars or engines I need to take into account when deciding? The last thing I want is to pay out, keep the car and then have to pay another few thousand in 6 months because the transmission has torn itself apart or something like that!

Also, if these wetbelts are  scrapping engines left, right and center (and a rudimentary search of these forums and the internet at large seem to suggest they are) then why does the service schedule not advise to change the belts more frequently? 10 years or 150k miles according to the handbook! Surely they should be advising changes every 50k or 60k miles??? How are they getting away with that?

Selling to WBAC is not something I'd though of. Surely they'd get on to it very quickly afterwards though, wouldn't they? Anyone know what happens then? Would they reject it, or give me less than initially quoted for it?

16 minutes ago, DoTheDonkeyKonga said:

Selling to WBAC is not something I'd though of. Surely they'd get on to it very quickly afterwards though, wouldn't they? Anyone know what happens then? Would they reject it, or give me less than initially quoted for it?

If the low pressure warning light is not on when you sell it to them, it is no longer your responsibility.

Part of their pre-purchase checks is to ensure no warning lights are illuminated.

You can just say, if they ever were to come back to you, which they won't, it was fine when you checked it. The car will spend weeks sitting around or been dropped off at different distribution areas waiting to be auctioned off.

Just say nothing, hand over the keys and walk away

...and then try to live with the crushing guilt of knowing you've passed the problem onto the next owner for the rest of your life...  

I was not cut out to be a used car salesman unfortunately...damn conscience!  

 

I do agree it's an unenviable position to be in though.  And financially the best option is to cut your losses and get rid of it.  

I note yours is an automatic, so the engine is slightly different to the manual engine.  It contains a balance shaft next to the oil pump, which puts more strain on the oil pump belt, and also makes the automatic engines more expensive to replace.  The automatic gearbox itself is generally reliable in these though, it's a conventional box, rather than the DSG type.

19 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

and then try to live with the crushing guilt of knowing you've passed the problem onto the next owner for the rest of your life...  

Like Ford do, daily.

Well I've just heard back from the engineering firm and they've quoted just shy of £7500, so it's really not worth it.

WBAC quoted £4400 for it, but I'm not comfortable passing this problem on to some other poor sod.

The engineers did say they could potentially repair and refurbish the existing engine for around £3500. I'm thinking about it but not sure what'll happen if they go to do it and find out it's beyond repair. I'll be paying a lot of labour costs for nothing then! The engine is still running though (or was last time I checked - I've obviously not driven or even started it since I was advised about it possibly being scrapped) so maybe I'll get away with a repair and refurb? What do you think? If so I could probably part-ex it for slightly more than the repair cost so will likely squeeze a little more than scrap value out of it... and put it toward a car that Ford haven't been anywhere near!

29 minutes ago, DoTheDonkeyKonga said:

What do you think? If so I could probably part-ex it for slightly more than the repair cost so will likely squeeze a little more than scrap value out of it... and put it toward a car that Ford haven't been anywhere near!

Part-Ex is just the same as selling it to WBAC😄 someone's still gunna buy it

Just cut your losses and get rid of it, quickly

If you want to give it a bit of longevity and piece of mind for yourself, drop the sump and clean the strainer, then sell it

But I would get rid of it ASAP, all 1.0s are going to bomb in value soon anyway, once word gets around how unreliable they are and how much the belt change at 10 years costs

Take the £4,400 and run

My bro and sister-in-law had a '16 plate Qashqai valued at £9k which developed a fault with the DCT gearbox ( another very common fault, it turns out) and they were quoted £4,500 by Nissan to change it and they only offered them £6k as a trade-in. After much soul searching they didn't bother getting it done and traded it in at a different, non-Nissan dealer against a Hyundai Tucson and still got the £9k !!

As Dave says, get rid ASAP and don't worry about the morals of it as that is exactly how dealers make their money 👍

You could give this lot a try too ??....

Car Buyers | Get Your Best Price | Motorway

15 minutes ago, DaveT70 said:

all 1.0s are going to bomb in value soon anyway, once word gets around how unreliable they are and how much the belt change at 10 years costs

I've been saying that for the last 3 years or so...  Somehow the general public still don't know!

 

50 minutes ago, DoTheDonkeyKonga said:

Well I've just heard back from the engineering firm and they've quoted just shy of £7500, so it's really not worth it.

WBAC quoted £4400 for it, but I'm not comfortable passing this problem on to some other poor sod.

The engineers did say they could potentially repair and refurbish the existing engine for around £3500. I'm thinking about it but not sure what'll happen if they go to do it and find out it's beyond repair. I'll be paying a lot of labour costs for nothing then! The engine is still running though (or was last time I checked - I've obviously not driven or even started it since I was advised about it possibly being scrapped) so maybe I'll get away with a repair and refurb? What do you think? If so I could probably part-ex it for slightly more than the repair cost so will likely squeeze a little more than scrap value out of it... and put it toward a car that Ford haven't been anywhere near!

It is a difficult decision.  Honestly, there's no way I'd be paying £3.5k for a repair just to trade it in straight after.  But I also couldn't live with myself for selling it as 'working' even to a trader.

Maybe try a few other car buying sites for valuations (Cazoo, Motorway, etc) but state that the engine light is on and see how much the value drops.  If it's not much, then you would get a good chunk of money for selling it, without having to pay for repairs first, and the onus is then on the buyer to decide whether to repair it or not.  If the engine light is not on when they come to view, just tell them that it was and you don't know why it's gone out...it's then up to them to test it properly before selling, but you've got your money and (hopefully) a clearer conscience...

1 hour ago, TomsFocus said:

Maybe try a few other car buying sites for valuations (Cazoo, Motorway, etc) but state that the engine light is on and see how much the value drops.  If it's not much, then you would get a good chunk of money for selling it, without having to pay for repairs first, and the onus is then on the buyer to decide whether to repair it or not.  If the engine light is not on when they come to view, just tell them that it was and you don't know why it's gone out...it's then up to them to test it properly before selling, but you've got your money and (hopefully) a clearer conscience...

That's a good idea. I really don't want to pass the problem on to someone else with no warning. I don't care if that's what dealers do - it still doesn't make it right and doesn't sit well with me. After all, anyone buying a used car with 72k on the clock most probably isn't rolling in money. I'll get a few 'spares or repairs' quotes first at least and make a decision after that.

What about the option of paying for the repair and continuing to run it for a while? I know it's hard to say without seeing the state of the engine, but what do you reckon the chances of running into other major issues are as a result? If it works and I get another year or two out of it that might be my best option.

3 hours ago, DoTheDonkeyKonga said:

so maybe I'll get away with a repair and refurb? What do you think?

I stand a much higher chance of winning this weeks lottery, and I don't even buy a ticket 🤣

Give up any idea of "possibly saving the engine" it's simply not going to happen.

If you sell it to 'we buy any old wreck dot com' then they will be selling it to the new owner with a 3 month warranty. Also if it goes BOOM ! in the first six months that the new owner has it, they just need to be able to say the fault must have existed at the time they bought it and they are still covered.

 

13 minutes ago, unofix said:

If you sell it to 'we buy any old wreck dot com' then they will be selling it to the new owner with a 3 month warranty. Also if it goes BOOM ! in the first six months that the new owner has it, they just need to be able to say the fault must have existed at the time they bought it and they are still covered.

From a financial point of view, that is true.  But it could be your Mum or your daughter stranded on a dark motorway in the middle of the night miles from home when it does fail.

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

stranded on a dark motorway in the middle of the night

but looking on the bright side it could be the Ex-wife 🤣

How sexist! What about me getting stranded on the M5 on a dark dark night?

I suppose I could call my daughter for help though, she has a reliable Honda HR-V 😀

6 hours ago, DoTheDonkeyKonga said:

what do you reckon the chances of running into other major issues are as a result? 

From experience I would say the chances are quite high.

Hi Dave. Oh what a dilemma. A question for you. How much do you love your car? That is, if there wasn't any issues with it whatsoever how long would you keep the car?

I'm gonna assume you Love the car and would keep it a few years.

Right then. If the engine sounds as it should then the belt has not slipped. If it had slipped a cog or two you'd hear it.

Get you mechanic to drop the oil and the sump and look at the condition of the gauze filter. IF the filter is clean then that's good. Get the belt changed as soon as.

If however the gauze filter is part full of crud then the belt has deteriorated but still intact. 

You say your car is kinda worth £7-8k. Ok. WBAC offer only £4k. So that's £4k under its worth. An engine rebuild for £3.5k is a no brainer and anyone who says an engine rebuild is useless is talking out of their behind. 

2 hours ago, tazzman600 said:

who says an engine rebuild is useless is talking out of their behind. 

Really ????

So you have personal experience of rebuilding the Ecoboost 1.0 ? If anyone is in a position to offer an opinion on whether it is worth spending the time an money trying to save the engine it would be @RayC333 who has rebuilt the same engine 3 times !!

11 hours ago, RayC333 said:

How sexist! What about me getting stranded on the M5 on a dark dark night?

I suppose I could call my daughter for help though, she has a reliable Honda HR-V 😀

Lol, that was specifically chosen for Unofix...I also specifically didn't mention wife based on past posts!  

 

On a serious note though, I can't tolerate being stranded for any length of time myself, and have had very poor experiences with major recovery companies.  I would not want to buy someone else's broken car (as was the cause of my last stranding!).  So I would not want to do the same to anyone else either.  A few minor niggles are acceptable, but a high risk of catastrophic engine failure does not sit well with me.  However, I also don't want to guilt-trip the OP into spending a lot of money for morals alone.  It's not an easy choice either way.

8 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I would not want to buy someone else's broken car (as was the cause of my last stranding!).  So I would not want to do the same to anyone else either. 

I currently have that dilemma. Knowing what I do about the recent history of my car, and after reading scores of accounts on the Facebook site 'Ford Ecoboost Nightmare', I'm reluctant to sell it on. That's despite fixing all the known issues and the time and care I've put into it.

21 minutes ago, RayC333 said:

I'm reluctant to sell it on.

Ray you couldn't possibly sell that car now 🤣

Perhaps the science museum would be interested as a unique example of the only known Ecoboost 1.0 engine to have been rebuilt and that still works !! 

7 minutes ago, unofix said:

Ray you couldn't possibly sell that car now 🤣

Perhaps the science museum would be interested as a unique example of the only know Ecoboost 1.0 engine to have been rebuilt and that still works !! 

They'd have to preserve the wetbelt in formaldehyde!

5 hours ago, unofix said:

Really ????

So you have personal experience of rebuilding the Ecoboost 1.0 ? If anyone is in a position to offer an opinion on whether it is worth spending the time an money trying to save the engine it would be @RayC333 who has rebuilt the same engine 3 times !!

I don't have experience of rebuilding an ecoboost engine. However I do have experience of rebuilding motorbike engines. Big 4 cylinder jobbies and 3 pot 2 strokers.

That's why I said and will say again. Anyone who says rebuilding an engine is useless is talking from their behind.

You've mentioned RayC333 who I believe has rebuilt his and is working perfectly. If Ray can do it then Any engineering workshop can. Just because its and engine with a wet cambelt so what. An engine is an engine and can be worked on by a competent engineer. 

Dave has had the option of a rebuild and at a reasonable cost. Considering the cars value with WBAC and how Dave values it. The difference is more than the quote to rebuild.

So if Dave really loves that car and intends to keep it a few years then its a no brainer. If Dave doesn't like the car then that's a different matter.

Tazz600

I won't be drawn in to a school yard slanging match, but I DO take offence that you feel the need to say that I'm

On 9/26/2023 at 3:19 PM, tazzman600 said:

talking from their behind

Your level of ignorance when it comes to the difference between rebuilding a motorbike engine, (of which I've rebuilt many), and the complexity and difficulty in the cost effectiveness of rebuilding the ecoboost 1.0 is absolutely astounding.

As far as this thread is concerned I will now leave it up to the OP to make their own minds up.