I have an opportunity to purchase a 2016 Ford Fiesta 1.0 Zetec Ecoboost at a very reasonable price off a family member. Full ford service history.  However, it's 2 years away from needing it's timing belt done. 

It would still be a minor bargain if I got the belt done by Ford (quoted £1643 by local Ford dealer). Has anyone on here paid Ford to change the belt and were there any problems?

Has anyone used a third party? Were there any problems and was it significantly cheaper? 

I could purchase the car and trade it in straight away as I think it would fetch a reasonable amount more than I'm paying. 

Or, should I just avoid it altogether ? 

Any suggestions, experiences or advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks 

3 minutes ago, Garold Faltermeyer said:

I could purchase the car and trade it in straight away as I think it would fetch a reasonable amount more than I'm paying. 

That👍

Hi Gary and welcome to the forum. You need to search here for your answers. There has been at least One guy who had the timing belt changed on his 1.0 ecoboost but it cost about 1200 if memory serves. If the quote you got from your local Ford dealer is kosher then grab their hands off. 

If you really want the car and its had a full dealer service history then go for it. 

You say it's 2 years away from getting the belt done. How many miles has the car done?

Has it actually got a full dealer service history? If so then keep that going because contrary to belief if the belt failed then all damage would be repaired for free. This has come from an engineering firm I use who have done such engine exchanges due to belt failure. 

Don't listen to BSers who just love to slate the 1.0 ecoboost of that era. 

Peruse the forum for your enquiry. Yes you'll come across horror stories but thats what you get on forums. Very rare to get Good news stories. 

48 minutes ago, tazzman600 said:

Hi Gary and welcome to the forum. You need to search here for your answers. There has been at least One guy who had the timing belt changed on his 1.0 ecoboost but it cost about 1200 if memory serves. If the quote you got from your local Ford dealer is kosher then grab their hands off. 

If you really want the car and its had a full dealer service history then go for it. 

You say it's 2 years away from getting the belt done. How many miles has the car done?

Has it actually got a full dealer service history? If so then keep that going because contrary to belief if the belt failed then all damage would be repaired for free. This has come from an engineering firm I use who have done such engine exchanges due to belt failure. 

Don't listen to BSers who just love to slate the 1.0 ecoboost of that era. 

Peruse the forum for your enquiry. Yes you'll come across horror stories but thats what you get on forums. Very rare to get Good news stories. 

Hi,

Many thanks for your reply.

Yeah, I believe it's  been serviced at the Ford garage it was purchased from brand new.  So full dealer service history . It's done 26,000 miles.  

1 hour ago, Garold Faltermeyer said:

However, it's 2 years away from needing it's timing belt done.

Please remember 10 years is the MAXIMUM age, it's not a target. You can, and should consider changing it sooner, especially because of the low mileage.

While a Ford dealer should do a reasonable job, the cost is far more than an independent Ecoboost engine specialist will charge. For example check out NorthWest Engines who do the work for around £900.  https://northwestengines.co.uk/

Independents who are alert to this seem to be springing up - even spotted one in Yorkshire:

https://www.woldsviewgarage.co.uk/resources/wet-belt-renewal

4 hours ago, tazzman600 said:

Don't listen to BSers who just love to slate the 1.0 ecoboost of that era.

I think I'd probably class as one of those so I'll refrain from saying anything.

4 hours ago, tazzman600 said:

If so then keep that going because contrary to belief if the belt failed then all damage would be repaired for free.

Any more details on that? It will be news to several posters on here.

Eric. This was told me by the manager at the engineers who did the belts on my Focus. I asked If they'd done the 1.0 ecoboost and they've done quite a few. No charge was given to owners who proved their cars had Full Dealer Service. They actually replaced the engines and not repaired them. They did jobs on cars whose engines packed up because of the inherent flaws.

I personally believe what they say. I went their for my cars belts to be done after they being recommended by All the local garages that I called upon for quotes.

Interesting. Just wondered how this worked, and if you could mention the firm, for the benefit of others who come on here with failed belts.

Presumably the place who did your belts was not an official Ford dealer, yet they were able to get authority (presumably from Ford, otherwise who paid?) to replace engines foc in certain cases.

It just seems at odds with experiences reported by other members who have gone via the official Ford dealer route and, at best, only been offered a  "goodwill contribution" toward a replacement engine.

1 hour ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

Presumably the place who did your belts was not an official Ford dealer, yet they were able to get authority (presumably from Ford, otherwise who paid?) to replace engines foc in certain cases.

Roger you really need to leave the joke telling to @Rondy 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Ford giving away free engines !! Whatever next a free lifetime warranty with every service ?

Eric and I now sit corrected Roger. I've mentioned where I got my cars belts done. Walkers of Rochdale. I can only assume that when they got a car in with a blown engine and it had a Full Dealer service history that they contacted Ford and must have got authorisation and an engine,or part there of, from Ford.

You know what man with no name Unofix. You seem a clever mechanically minded man but you don't arf come out with some drivel and it's a pity I have to say that.

15 minutes ago, tazzman600 said:

You know what man with no name Unofix. You seem a clever mechanically minded man but you don't arf come out with some drivel and it's a pity I have to say that.

Not half as much as some I could mention 🤣

1 hour ago, tazzman600 said:

I can only assume that when they got a car in with a blown engine and it had a Full Dealer service history that they contacted Ford and must have got authorisation and an engine,or part there of, from Ford.

Ah. That's not quite in line with your earlier post though, which stated:

22 hours ago, tazzman600 said:

Has it actually got a full dealer service history? If so then keep that going because contrary to belief if the belt failed then all damage would be repaired for free. 

Just trying to clarify things here and not build up expectations, taking into account all the folks who have gone down the official Ford route, and been shown the door. Hard to see why Ford would be more generous with a customer going through a third party repairer, than they are with those going through the official dealer network. 

Have Ford ever justified charging £1643 for a part of the scheduled maintenance of the vehicle? This is the outrageous part in my opinion. They have passed the cost of their poorly designed/ flawed engine onto their customers.  Things go badly wrong with cars and sometimes you just have cough up. But this is a routine, scheduled part of the vehicles servicing. They should have to declare this prior to purchase. 
I have emailed their customer relations team but unfortunately they want every detail of the car and since I don't own it yet I can't give them that. 

Another thought - has the timing belt issue been confused with the earlier cooling issues where Ford did (eventually) stump up? (Though even then, repair through the dealer network was mentioned)

In 2018, Ford said:

"With any future cases, subject to being assessed and linked to potential 1.0-litre engine overheating, we will contribute 100% of the cost of repair at a Ford dealer. Furthermore, we will re-examine previous cases to ensure that this policy of a 100% contribution to the repair cost is applied consistently."

6 hours ago, Garold Faltermeyer said:

Have Ford ever justified charging £1643 for a part of the scheduled maintenance of the vehicle? This is the outrageous part in my opinion. They have passed the cost of their poorly designed/ flawed engine onto their customers.  Things go badly wrong with cars and sometimes you just have cough up. But this is a routine, scheduled part of the vehicles servicing. They should have to declare this prior to purchase. 
I have emailed their customer relations team but unfortunately they want every detail of the car and since I don't own it yet I can't give them that. 

Part of the reason why it's so much (and remember that independent garages are also charging in the region of £1000-1500) is simply because the cost of garage work and parts has all shot up significantly in recent years. Average labour charges at garages has hit £75 p/hr.

On top of that is the fact that doing a timing belt job on this engine requires a lot more work than typical. A typical timing belt job normally could already take several hours. With this engine though, out of precaution for "ecoboom", you've got to replace two wetbelts - the cambelt (aka timing belt), plus the one driving the oil pump - and you've got to either replace the oil pump (an expensive part) or at least clean out its oil strainer (which can't simply be removed, you've either got to dismantle the pump or try to clean it without dismantling). Getting to the oil pump and (if I recall correctly) being in a position to replace the oil pump belt, requires removing the engine sump. Removing the engine sump necessitates removing the oil. Removing the engine sump on this engine also requires removing a section of exhaust (the exhaust goes under the engine and up to the front of it), and removing the A/C pump that attaches to it. It's very common for bolts to be seized up and a nightmare to remove on exhaust parts, so that can potentially add a lot of time and effort. Additionally one of the bolts on the A/C pump also commonly seizes up. Furthermore the case covering the timing belt is metal with sealant used on the surface that mates with the engine, so you have to spend time carefully cleaning up all of the old sealant off of both surfaces, then apply a fresh bead before reinstallation. Plus an oil seal ideally needs replacing. The same work with sealant will have to be done when refitting the sump. There's also a greater mass of wiring and such on the top of the engine to be removed and reinstalled than found on my Focus. So thus it is justifiable that a "timing belt job" (really a 'timing belt + oil pump belt + de-clogging of oil pump' job) costs more for this engine than typical.

Since the primary need for checking and if necessary cleaning out the oil pump filter (or alternatively replacing the oil pump) is due to concern for "ecoboom", you could argue though that that portion of the work is not being done as simply part of normal necessary maintenance and thus that Ford should contribute to it. I can't recall whether the maintenance schedule actually calls for the oil pump belt to be changed at the same time as the timing belt, but if not then you could argue that all of the work related to removing the sump is only being done out of such concern and thus something Ford should have to contribute to. However you're probably going to have just as much difficulty getting them to pay out for that as people have had getting them to pay out for a new engine.

1 hour ago, rd457 said:

Part of the reason why it's so much (and remember that independent garages are also charging in the region of £1000-1500) is simply because the cost of garage work and parts has all shot up significantly in recent years. Average labour charges at garages has hit £75 p/hr.

On top of that is the fact that doing a timing belt job on this engine requires a lot more work than typical. A typical timing belt job normally could already take several hours. With this engine though, out of precaution for "ecoboom", you've got to replace two wetbelts - the cambelt (aka timing belt), plus the one driving the oil pump - and you've got to either replace the oil pump (an expensive part) or at least clean out its oil strainer (which can't simply be removed, you've either got to dismantle the pump or try to clean it without dismantling). Getting to the oil pump and (if I recall correctly) being in a position to replace the oil pump belt, requires removing the engine sump. Removing the engine sump necessitates removing the oil. Removing the engine sump on this engine also requires removing a section of exhaust (the exhaust goes under the engine and up to the front of it), and removing the A/C pump that attaches to it. It's very common for bolts to be seized up and a nightmare to remove on exhaust parts, so that can potentially add a lot of time and effort. Additionally one of the bolts on the A/C pump also commonly seizes up. Furthermore the case covering the timing belt is metal with sealant used on the surface that mates with the engine, so you have to spend time carefully cleaning up all of the old sealant off of both surfaces, then apply a fresh bead before reinstallation. Plus an oil seal ideally needs replacing. The same work with sealant will have to be done when refitting the sump. There's also a greater mass of wiring and such on the top of the engine to be removed and reinstalled than found on my Focus. So thus it is justifiable that a "timing belt job" (really a 'timing belt + oil pump belt + de-clogging of oil pump' job) costs more for this engine than typical.

Since the primary need for checking and if necessary cleaning out the oil pump filter (or alternatively replacing the oil pump) is due to concern for "ecoboom", you could argue though that that portion of the work is not being done as simply part of normal necessary maintenance and thus that Ford should contribute to it. I can't recall whether the maintenance schedule actually calls for the oil pump belt to be changed at the same time as the timing belt, but if not then you could argue that all of the work related to removing the sump is only being done out of such concern and thus something Ford should have to contribute to. However you're probably going to have just as much difficulty getting them to pay out for that as people have had getting them to pay out for a new engine.

Thanks for this response, it's very detailed and explains the process and the time involved in doing the work. That said, all of it is a consequence of the design of the engine. This was clearly not supposed to be a part of the routine service schedule. The wet belt was clearly originally envisaged as a lifetime part that has now become a part of the service schedule due to the degradation of the belts and the consequences . Ford have passed the cost onto their customers. That's disgraceful. I hope they get taken to task for it. 

P.s I know I'm stating the obvious. But there's no defending Ford in this instance. It's not fit for purpose. 

14 hours ago, Garold Faltermeyer said:

This was clearly not supposed to be a part of the routine service schedule.

Yes, that was said initially. It's hard to find a reference now when searching - a bit like the Ministry of Truth in 1984 where someone has gone back and unsaid what was originally stated!😀 

Said this elsewhere, but if they'd intended it to be changed in service surely they would have designed it differently. The VW group 1.0 triple, for instance, has a conventional dry belt which is a much easier job. We had ours replaced at our usual local garage a couple of years back for around £300. 

3 hours ago, Eric Bloodaxe said:

the Ministry of Truth

They are having a big recruitment drive at the moment. Work is just piling up and they've not yet unsaid all the Covid BS, and now they have to quickly start on the post Office. 🤣

There is a major shortage of Flux Capacitors, but it's hoped that new brain washing techniques will help lessen the need to go back in time and change history.