I know we have quite a few electronics experts on here. 

Can anyone tell me how to bridge the plug on a 3-wire washing machine door lock so it thinks it's locked?  The lock is broken, and although I can open the door manually now, it won't start the cycle as it can't sense the door is locked.  I'm hoping it's as simple as just putting a short section of wire between two pins.  But I wasn't expecting a 3rd pin - any idea what that does and if it's needed for this?

(Also - does anyone know if the door could randomly open during a spin cycle without being locked?  I assume the lock is just to prevent kids opening the door mid-cycle?)

40 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

I know we have quite a few electronics experts on here. 

Can anyone tell me how to bridge the plug on a 3-wire washing machine door lock so it thinks it's locked?  The lock is broken, and although I can open the door manually now, it won't start the cycle as it can't sense the door is locked.  I'm hoping it's as simple as just putting a short section of wire between two pins.  But I wasn't expecting a 3rd pin - any idea what that does and if it's needed for this?

(Also - does anyone know if the door could randomly open during a spin cycle without being locked?  I assume the lock is just to prevent kids opening the door mid-cycle?)

Have a look her Tom, it is a bit involved and the time it happened to me I just ordered a new Interlock and waited until it arrived. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MsQs5F4ew

2 minutes ago, Tizer said:

Have a look her Tom, it is a bit involved and the time it happened to me I just ordered a new Interlock and waited until it arrived. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MsQs5F4ew

Thanks John.

Unfortunately this happened a few years ago when it was still under warranty.  The manufacturer sent me 3 different door locks before eventually giving up and telling me they couldn't find the correct one.  I managed to bodge the original at the time, but it totally failed yesterday and I don't know how long it'll be before I can get a whole new machine delivered now.  Could really do with it working in the meantime.

Is it the actual lock that has 3 pins? I would guess its something like Ground, Power and Sense.

Do you have a multimeter to see if there is voltage between any of the pins?

22 minutes ago, alexp999 said:

Is it the actual lock that has 3 pins? I would guess its something like Ground, Power and Sense.

Do you have a multimeter to see if there is voltage between any of the pins?

I do have a multimeter and even trained as an electrician many years ago but don't really fancy poking about inside a 240v machine with it plugged in.

The third pin seems to be a thermal cut-off.  Common neutral for both parts in the middle.  Then the switched live for the physical lock at the other end.

I guess the machine needs to see both the door physically locked and thermal cut-off before it'll start.  So not really sure how to easily bypass it now. 

There are plenty of videos but they're all very long and I've already got a migraine from this.

Here's a much better video explaining how it actually works. I'm not sure why it has pins labelled 2-4 when there are just three pins.

So there's two circuits, one that actually runs the machine, and one that activates the other and locks the door. Power is delivered through the activation circuit, which heats up and bends a bi-metalic strip. The bending of the bi-metalic strip pushes a latch into a hole to lock the door (closing the door pushes the black slider along, exposing the hole for the locking latch), and it also closes a contact to complete the main power circuit. When the washing cycle completes, power is cut off from the activation circuit, the bi-metallic strip cools down, flexing back, the main power circuit is thus broken and the locking latch moves out of the hole, thus the door can be opened.

The video posted above shows two methods of bypassing it. Either you can open up the lock and stick something in there to force the contacts of the main power circuit together, bypassing the activation circuit, but of course if you allow the locking latch to slip into the latching hole when you close the door, you'll never get the door back open without breaking something. The other way would be to use a piece of wire to bridge the two applicable pins of the connector's main power circuit, bypassing the lock. You'd just have to identify which pin is which, or try all three combinations until it works.

 

3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

(Also - does anyone know if the door could randomly open during a spin cycle without being locked?  I assume the lock is just to prevent kids opening the door mid-cycle?)

Indeed the lock is supposedly to prevent kids getting hurt should they open it and stick their arms in mid-cycle, as apparently has happened before. However since the lock physically blocks the door latch from unlatching, I couldn't be certain that vibrations from the machine couldn't potentially cause it to unlatch without the locking mechanism functioning.

18 minutes ago, rd457 said:

Here's a much better video explaining how it actually works. I'm not sure why it has pins labelled 2-4 when there are just three pins.

I love this guy, BigClive, recognised his voice instantly and am subscribed to his channel. Most is way above me, but he explains things so well, really watchable!

16 hours ago, rd457 said:

Here's a much better video explaining how it actually works. I'm not sure why it has pins labelled 2-4 when there are just three pins.

So there's two circuits, one that actually runs the machine, and one that activates the other and locks the door. Power is delivered through the activation circuit, which heats up and bends a bi-metalic strip. The bending of the bi-metalic strip pushes a latch into a hole to lock the door (closing the door pushes the black slider along, exposing the hole for the locking latch), and it also closes a contact to complete the main power circuit. When the washing cycle completes, power is cut off from the activation circuit, the bi-metallic strip cools down, flexing back, the main power circuit is thus broken and the locking latch moves out of the hole, thus the door can be opened.

The video posted above shows two methods of bypassing it. Either you can open up the lock and stick something in there to force the contacts of the main power circuit together, bypassing the activation circuit, but of course if you allow the locking latch to slip into the latching hole when you close the door, you'll never get the door back open without breaking something. The other way would be to use a piece of wire to bridge the two applicable pins of the connector's main power circuit, bypassing the lock. You'd just have to identify which pin is which, or try all three combinations until it works

 

Thanks Lyndon.

Oddly, mine is labelled 543, despite only having 3 pins and 4 potential pin spaces.  The plug is labelled as 123 though.  2 brown wires and one red.

Now, I thought I'd understood it last night from a practical level:

1. There should be continuity through the pins for the bimetallic strip all the time. 

2. There should only be continuity through the pins for the lock once the strip heats up, flexes, and allows the door lock to physically move. 

So in my mind I just needed to close the lock circuit, as the machine won't be smart enough to detect unusual resistance on the bimetallic strip side?  Problem is, there's no continuity between any of the pins on the broken part.  I couldn't even get continuity by manually sliding the door lock across.  (Though that could be user error, it was difficult to hold the meter probes in place while sliding and I don't have any croc clips.)

I do have a similar lock arriving today (next day delivery) though I know it won't work perfectly after the hassle I had last time.  I'm just hoping it works well enough to lock the door, even if I have to manually unlock it at the end of each cycle.  If not, then I will have to try bridging the plug with a short piece of wire, though now I'm not sure how to work which pins it should be, or even if I've got the above correct.  I'm sure it's simple enough, I just don't function well under stress.

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Oddly, mine is labelled 543, despite only having 3 pins and 4 potential pin spaces.  The plug is labelled as 123 though.  2 brown wires and one red.

🙃

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

1. There should be continuity through the pins for the bimetallic strip all the time. 

2. There should only be continuity through the pins for the lock once the strip heats up, flexes, and allows the door lock to physically move. 

So in my mind I just needed to close the lock circuit, as the machine won't be smart enough to detect unusual resistance on the bimetallic strip side?  Problem is, there's no continuity between any of the pins on the broken part.  I couldn't even get continuity by manually sliding the door lock across.  (Though that could be user error, it was difficult to hold the meter probes in place while sliding and I don't have any croc clips.)

Yeah that's what I'd expect too and you're understanding is correct. The pin for the machine's actual power circuit should read as OL against either of the other two, whilst the other two pins should have a measurable path. Where you perhaps using continuity mode and looking for a beep, rather than using resistance mode? This activation path passes through the bi-metalic strip and the 'PTC heater' (that white ceramic object). I don't know how much resistance these components would have but it's possible that it's more than the ~20 Ohms or so under which continuity mode makes a beep, so you'd instead have to just note the presence of a measurable resistance as opposed to OL in the other cases. Though of course we don't know hit what way it's broken which may be interfering with the results.

I may get the lock out of my machine a bit later and see how that measures.

5 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

If not, then I will have to try bridging the plug with a short piece of wire, though now I'm not sure how to work which pins it should be, or even if I've got the above correct.

If we get nowhere with probing the pins of the lock itself, taking it apart could of course unlock the answer.

3 minutes ago, rd457 said:

taking it apart could of course unlock the answer.

Be careful if taking it apart. I took mine apart out of sheer nosiness after I fitted the new one and it is so easy to break a bit of the plastic and if the bits of it fall out  it is not always obvious what way they go back.

I did find that the Washing Machine spares company were on the ball regarding the correct part for mine, I think it was a generic part also.

Thanks both of you.  The spare did not work despite looking 99% the same.  Just kept maniacally clicking (presumably bimetallic strip flexing under power surges).  The machine did actually start, but I couldn't risk leaving it like that so had to cut the power.

I then tried bridging the plug.  Got the right pins first time but...then it thought it was permanently locked and wouldn't allow me to restart the cycle or change to a different one.  Again I didn't feel it was safe to run like that.

I've given up now.  Hoping I can get a new machine delivered over the weekend but that's easier said than done in my circumstances.  

Ah, that's a shame. 😕

I did end up taking mine out just now, after first fighting off a spider for dominance of the space behind the fridge where the plug is. As I thought, resistance measures OL for two pin combinations (C-L and C-N) and ~1.1KOhms for the third (L-N). So L-N must be the activation circuit.

Also for the hell of it out of curiosity I plugged the machine in, turned on the power button with no cycle setting selected, and measured voltage between the pins (with the lock removed). Turns out to be AC, 180v between L and C, 17.5v between N and C, and 14v between L and N.

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

Just kept maniacally clicking (presumably bimetallic strip flexing under power surges).

Hmm 🤨🤔 🤷‍♂️

Is there a solenoid in there to pull the lock across?  That might be what's clicking instead.  Sounded like a Woodpecker lol.

Interested to know how old your machine is?  Massive individual connectors and a properly labeled cover suggests nothing modern!

(Also wondering if that's the same OMP that makes bucket seats!)

12 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Is there a solenoid in there to pull the lock across?  That might be what's clicking instead.  Sounded like a Woodpecker lol.

I think bigclive suggested in the video that most/all were the same bi-metalic based design, but yeah I guess there's always a chance it could be a different design with a solenoid. I was wondering whether the copper spring mechanism in the one he showed was flicking back and forth for some reason. 🤷‍♂️ I didn't bother taking mine apart because the case was plastic riveted together and I decided not to chance it.

35 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Interested to know how old your machine is?  Massive individual connectors and a properly labeled cover suggests nothing modern!

Haha, yeah definitely not new, I inherited it from my grandmother. I just found the user manual and it says '02/93' on the back, which may well be the date. 😄

Just now, rd457 said:

...I just found the user manual and it says '02/93' on the back, which may well be the date. 😄

It's a youngster LOL My Hotpoint machine which only failed a couple of tears ago was bought in 1986. I only toss machines out when the are beyond economical repair, I'm not into, 'fashion'...

13 hours ago, StephenFord said:

It's a youngster LOL My Hotpoint machine which only failed a couple of tears ago was bought in 1986. I only toss machines out when the are beyond economical repair, I'm not into, 'fashion'...

I wasn't aware that washing machines were considered a fashion item?  They all look pretty ugly to me.  

1986 was back when Hoptoint was still a decent quality brand.  You won't get anything like that out of a modern one.  They're now just poor quality, mass produced rubbish owned by a multi-national conglomerate.  Even without the door lock failure, I've never been pleased with this one.  Noisiest motor I've ever heard (seen a review comparing it to a rocket take off).  Struggles to balance the load no matter how carefully I pack it.  Shock absorber wore out quickly so it lumps about at the start and end of every spin cycle - and won't spin at all when it can't balance.  The humidity sensor failed after about 5 years so it stops the drying cycle while the laundry is still damp.  The bearings have sounded horrific over the past year or so, though in fairness I suspect that's more to do with the drying function cooking them than the wash function.  Have been meaning to replace it for the past few years but just kept putting it off in the hope of moving elsewhere first.  Obviously in hindsight that wasn't the best idea. 🤦‍♂️

 

Trouble is, separately from that, I haven't been impressed with either the fridge (that can't keep food cold) or the cooker (which blew the element within 18 months) that I bought in the past 3 years, which is limiting the brands that I want to try for a new washer now.

I don't really care about the cost this time, and warranty isn't much use to me, I just need something that I can rely on.  Any brand recommendations welcome...

My double oven and hob are both still working perfectly from 1992, both branded, 'homark', probably defunct by now though. Fridge/freezer was Electrolux and lasted me 34 years, before I had to replace last year with a crap Beko one. I fully expect it to fail after 34 months 🤣 totally agree, they don't build things to last anymore, so much for protecting the environment!

I'm told that Fisher and Paykel Washing Machines are built to last with a 5/10 year warranty, they are quite expensive though.

Next question - any clever ideas for draining the tub as much as possible before unscrewing the filter at the bottom?  There is no separate drain tube on this machine.

I've removed about 5 litres by wringing out the clothes and scooping water from inside the drum.  Not sure how much is left inside the tub now though?

I've tried to syphon it out but the only pipe I could find small enough is rank so I'm not sucking the other end.   Thought I could use an old spray bottle lid, but it turns out they don't have a one way valve and I couldn't pump the trigger quick enough to get the height over the door ledge.  Fuel filter priming bulb is far too large though I may try that if I can find it.  Not sure it's even still here, might be in storage now.

20 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Next question - any clever ideas for draining the tub as much as possible before unscrewing the filter at the bottom?  There is no separate drain tube on this machine.

I've no idea if things are set up like this or not, but if you take the Drain Hose off its connection to the House Drain and hold it as low as you can then the water might drain out under gravitational force unless there is a Valve that needs to open when draining.

Just a thought, I may be talking rubbish.

Good idea but the machine is halfway back in it's hole now and I can't move it out again myself.  (That was another whole event as there's no separate switch for the mains plug - ended up having to pull the breaker switch for all sockets until someone could come over, and as mentioned on another thread, there's no phone signal here atm, so I lost wifi messaging with the sockets off as well. ) 

Just had an idea about running the wet vac below while slowly unscrewing the filter...but that could go horribly wrong if it comes gushing out too quickly. 🤔

 

Next complaint...why do washing cycles take so long nowadays?  And why aren't they properly listed even in the manuals?

I just want something that does a 60c wash in around 1 hour for towels & bedding.  If anyone knows of one, let me know.  Also looks like I'm restricted to cheap rubbish brands again, as the hole won't quite accommodate the standard 60cm width on the higher quality models I was been looking at.

10 minutes ago, TomsFocus said:

Next complaint...why do washing cycles take so long nowadays?  And why aren't they properly listed even in the manuals?

Does you machine not have any, 'quick 'cycle settings? Mine has a 30 minute and 60 minute setting. Have no idea what temp they reach, but the 60 minute one is the one I use 90% of the time, and it seems to refresh my laundry just fine...

1 hour ago, StephenFord said:

Does you machine not have any, 'quick 'cycle settings? Mine has a 30 minute and 60 minute setting. Have no idea what temp they reach, but the 60 minute one is the one I use 90% of the time, and it seems to refresh my laundry just fine...

Mine has a 60 minute cycle, but it's 10 years old now.  The modern ones seem to be 2-3 hours for a standard cycle.  I've even seen one 'eco' wash & dry cycle stated as 9 hours and 20 minutes! 😮

 

But in other news, the fuel pump primer worked.  That's another 2 litres out.